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Difference between revisions of "Eclipse/PMC"

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= Documents =
 +
 +
Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:
 +
 +
* [[E4/Graduation_4.0]]
 +
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Unix Groups]]
 +
 
= Meeting Schedule =
 
= Meeting Schedule =
  
Line 4: Line 11:
  
 
= Meeting Minutes =
 
= Meeting Minutes =
−
 
+
'''April 23, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin
−
'''Aug 19:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
* Alex - '''GTK2 Xulrunner Crashes'''
−
* '''Pruning inactive committers'''
+
** GTK2 crashes the Browser
−
** Martin: The EMO [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00000.html recommends removing inactive committers] in order to keep the project vibrant and relevant. Why are there so many non-voters?
+
** GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
−
*** Dani: Component Granularity - Portal is still broken for JDT UI vs. JDT Core.
+
** McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
−
*** Martin: Yet there are likely some who really haven't been active for long -- but only component / project lead would know that
+
* Dani - '''Freeze Plan created'''
−
** McQ: We are not actively searching to prune inactive committers. Committers are good, whether active or not. No interest in doing any work for this, but OK if others do.
+
* John - '''Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret'''
−
*** Jeff: sees some sense in pruning the list, and did so in the past for Equinox
+
*  
−
** Rights - what can we actually do in the Portal?
+
−
*** Component leads can mark people active who appear inactive on the portal
+
−
*** Only [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-project-leadership/msg00002.html The Project Lead can decommitterize], and can do so without PMC interaction
+
−
**** Jeff - it's odd that this is not symmetrical to approving new committers
+
−
** John: Once a committer is emeritus and decides to come back, can we make the process of re-making them a committer easier?
+
−
*** Jeff thinks that the normal committer process is good in this case.
+
−
** '''Consensus:'''
+
−
*** We do not actively ask to remove inactive committers, but if a component / project lead wants to do so, they are welcome
+
−
*** The process is to first send E-Mail to the potentially inactive committer and if they agree they are [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04309.html decommitterized] and optionally turned to [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/equinox-dev/msg04324.html committer emeritus]
+
−
*** If the E-Mail doesn't work any more they can also be decommitterized immediately.
+
−
* '''Reference Platforms'''
+
−
** Windows 7
+
−
* '''Bugzilla: LATER / REMIND states'''
+
−
** 4000 bugs affected. Need to discuss in the arch call how to proceed.
+
−
** Dani Proposal: LATER --> WONTFIX / REMIND --> INVALID / and move back to the inbox since often assignees no longer active
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 12:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''April 16, 2014''' - Dani, Alex
−
* '''Retrospective Actions''' -  
+
* no topics today
−
** Need to nominate a person to care for performance: Dani to try find somebody from JDT core for a bounded time (6 months or so)
+
−
** Build issues
+
−
** Bugzilla performance etc
+
−
* '''Backward compatibility'''
+
−
** Reporting tool - want a foundation database, that Members can report their API / non-API usage signatures into
+
−
** Part of the member value-add
+
−
** KNOWING the impact is the first important thing
+
−
* '''Forward compatibility''' - from RT / Christian Campo
+
−
** PDE never tried to ensure that somebody can use 3.4 to launch 3.5
+
−
** The differences in launching 3.4 vs 3.5 are small... if we would have been aware, we could have made this possible
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Aug 5:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Jeff, John A
+
'''April 9, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* '''Security proposal''' on eclipse-pmc list - agree that this should be closer to the target runtimes (wtp, ...)
+
* Dani - '''Kepler SR2 and Java 8'''
−
* '''"Plugin" vs "Bundle"''' - Clarification: Proposal was only about PDE. Global replacement is out of reach.
+
** Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
−
** McQ thinks that Plugin is a Bundle that makes use of the Eclipse extension registry (plugin.xml) - Jeff disagrees wrt declarative services
+
** Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
−
** As a message to end users, does it help us if we talk about "plugins"?
+
** Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
−
** Is this an internal statement about tooling, or something we should do more globally?
+
** Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
−
** Real problem is, that people should perceive PDE as tooling for bundles: Make Eclipse more adoptable in the OSGi community
+
−
** "Bundle" and "Plugin" have been used interchangeably for about 5 years... but still, a more pervasive change would require lots of docs changes that may be very painful for consumers
+
−
** McQ wants a technical proposal what should be changed
+
−
** Perhaps provide a '''separate''' tooling for bundles (with property files replaced)? EPP Package for Bundle Developers? - But a choice is not a good thing...
+
−
** '''Jeff suggestion:''' Do PDE 3.6 that is "all bundles" plus add a compatibility bundle that gives you the word "plugin" back.
+
−
* McQ: '''Backward Compatibility''' - consuming new versions of Eclipse is still too hard. IBM makes it the highest priority that '''everything''' that ran on 3.5 also runs on 3.6 - including internals - or the new version may not be consumable!
+
−
** Do anything that may not be easily backwards compatible in the 4.0 stream rather than the 3.x stream.
+
−
** Jeff thinks this is going to be a hard sell because internals are made to be internal
+
−
** Jeff: API Tooling that allows people to discover use of internals, see also {{bug|261544}}
+
  
−
<hr/>
+
* John - '''Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions'''
−
'''Jul 29:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
+
** Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
−
* Dani will start to organize [[Eclipse/Galileo/Retrospective]] items
+
** Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
−
* Too many broken builds recently
+
** Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
−
* e4 shipping 0.9 this week
+
** Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches
−
* PDE project proposal coming to explore Eclipse build technology
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jul 15:''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, John A, Jeff
 
−
* Dani: What to do with the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg08660.html Galileo Retrospective] items? Which ones should become action items? E.g. Bugzilla Slowness?
 
−
** John: Next PC meeting is Aug 3, should have items for the PC ready by then
 
−
** Decision: PMC mailing list conversation, will review retrospective action in Jul 29 PMC meeting.
 
−
* McQ to send out a note to formalize John as the PC representation
 
−
* McQ wants status messages again for the arch call
 
  
−
<hr/>
+
'''April 2, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, John, Martin
−
'''Jun 24:''' - McQ, Dani
+
* Dani - new GTK3+ issues
−
* Dani asked whether the PMC meeting notes are targeted for the public
+
** crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX ({{bug|431330}})
−
** McQ: yes, they got announced on pmc mailing list
+
** problems with main menu ({{bug|419830}})
−
* no PMC call next week due to a holiday
+
* Dani - '''Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work'''
 +
** Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
 +
* Dani - need to '''approve API changes for Java 8 in M7'''
 +
** No API changes, only additions
 +
** Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
 +
** ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
 +
** There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
 +
* John - '''SWT over JavaFX'''
 +
** EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
 +
** Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
 +
** Relationship to Tom Schindl's [http://www.eclipse.org/efxclipse/index.html e(fx)clipse project] ?
 +
*** e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
 +
*** Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
 +
*** Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in {{bug|426243}}
 +
*** Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
 +
**** It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
 +
**** John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
 +
*** Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX
  
−
<hr/>
 
−
'''Jun 17:''' - McQ, Dani, Jeff, John A, (Martin joined just as we were hanging up)
 
−
* Dani asked whether the PMC had internal discussion of new committer votes
 
−
** A: Generally the PMC member for the component gives +1, unless they feel the need to bring the discussion to the rest of the PMC
 
−
* Jeff mentioned that we should remind the teams to do retrospectives
 
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 10:''' - McQ, Martin, Dani, Steve, John A
+
'''March 26, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* Welcome to Dani, John agrees to be here as a listening member for a while
+
* John - '''EclipseCon Update'''
−
* Sun Java 6u14 (May 25) broken for debugging because thread ID's are changed when garbage collector runs
+
** Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
−
** Clearly a Sun bug (also happens in jdb) but not yet confirmed by Sun
+
** IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
−
** Described in Readme, but readme will only be available when a rebuild occurs
+
** Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
−
** Dani will send out a note tomorrow when they know more about other platforms
+
** Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
 +
** See also Blog Posts from [http://cdtdoug.ca/ Doug Schaefer] and [http://eclipsesource.com/blogs/author/irbull/ Ian Bull] as well as [https://www.eclipsecon.org/na2014/news/top-5-ian-bull top 5 from Ian]
 +
* John - '''ARM port of GTK''' - any tracking items ?
 +
** Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
 +
** IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
 +
** Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
 +
** Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
 +
*** Example: {{bug|430698}}, {{bug|429237}}, {{bug|415757}}; {{bug|419855}} talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
 +
*** Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
 +
*** Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
 +
**** Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
 +
**** Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
 +
* Alex - '''Java 8 vs Java 7''' currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
 +
** In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
 +
** ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is {{bug|390889}} and we'll try to fix it for M7.
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Jun 3:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Jeff
+
'''March 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ
−
* McQ - asking Dani M to join the Eclipse PMC to represent JDT. PMC agrees. McQ will send a note to Mike Milinkovich / EMO.
+
* McQ - '''Congrats on Java 8 Release''' to coincide with the Oracle release
−
* McQ - asking John A to represent the Eclipse Project on Planning Council
+
* Dani - '''Windows 8 Support''' - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
−
** Jeff thinks that the PC rep should be a PMC member in order to have a strong bi-directional communication path.
+
** McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
−
** McQ proposes asking John to join the PMC calls for communication.
+
** Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
−
** Martin agrees provided that John is OK with this delegate role.
+
** Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation
−
* Steve {{bug|277713}} critical bug, probably more critical bugs to triage - defer to arch call
+
−
* Jeff Target Provisioning discussion
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 27:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
'''March 12, 2014''' - Alex, Martin, McQ, John
−
* {{bug|277735}} releng.tools copyright tool - Martin would like to see it released. Discuss in Arch call.
+
* GTK - SWT team discussions
 +
* John - '''preparing for Java 8 release'''
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 20:''' - McQ, Martin
+
'''March 5, 2014''' - John, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* PC Lead: John A suggested to represent Eclipse
+
* Dani: '''How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit''' - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
−
* Linux: New Launchers built, didn't start on Linux ... I-build was broken, want to know why
+
* Dani: '''Windows 8 Support'''
 +
** Not listed in official plan
 +
** No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
 +
** Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
 +
** Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
 +
** AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
 +
*** Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
 +
* Dani: '''State of GTK 3+'''
 +
** Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
 +
** Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
 +
** Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
 +
** Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
 +
** On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
 +
** Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
 +
* Alex: '''GTK 3 in Mars'''
 +
** Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
 +
** RHEL 5 would no longer work
 +
** Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''May 13:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff, Steve, Philippe
+
'''February 26, 2014''' - Alex, John, Martin, McQ
−
* {{bug|273660}} Common Navigator: Pipelining issues with JDT + CDT
+
* John: '''Orion Release''' this week
  
−
<hr/>
+
* Alex: '''Eclipse on ARM64'''
−
'''May 6:''' - McQ, Martin, Jeff
+
** Launcher and swt at first
−
* McQ PDE Feature Request
+
** Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
−
** New Target Platform came in late
+
** John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
−
** PMC agrees with trying to fix this, but want to see the final patch before +1
+
*** Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
−
* McQ Testplan
+
*** At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
−
** People going to test their own because test plan is too complex
+
** Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
−
* Jeff Splash Screen
+
  
−
 
+
* Dani: Update on '''GTK 3+ issue''' - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
−
<hr/>
+
** Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
−
'''Apr 29:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve
+
** McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
−
* Martin: Java6 ref platform - anything between 6u3 and 6u10 (exclusive) was broken, anything after 6u10 (inclusive) has license issues in [http://java.sun.com/javase/6/javase-6-thirdpartyreadme.txt thirdpartylicensereadme.txt].
+
*** If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
−
** Suggestion: Dont update the plan document yet, but start running tests with 6u13 on Linux. '''AI McQ''' talk to Kim about this.
+
*** Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
−
** '''AI Martin''' make a final attempt to get more info out of Sun.
+
*** Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it
−
* Steve: Solaris x86 - looks good but some problems with X server
+
−
* McQ: API Deprecation Policy {{bug|261544}} - '''AI McQ''' synthesise some summary and comment on the bug
+
−
* M7: Testers found some interesting prolbems with launching Eclipse from Eclipse (depending on VM, BIDI chars in paths dont work)
+
  
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 22:''' - McQ, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
'''February 19, 2014''' - Dani, Alex, Martin, John
−
* Steve: Solaris x86 - got a Browser running, looking good,
+
* Dani: '''Silenio to work on GTK issue?'''
−
* Steve: Cocoa Sheets - new API - Dialogs associated with a Window: Dialog slides down from title bar
+
* John: '''GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation'''
−
** Clients need to opt in through new API because they need to specify a dialog as being adequate for sheet support
+
* John: '''e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools'''
−
* Martin: Maintenance builds post SR2
+
** Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
−
** experience in the past has shown only very few, surgically isolated patches so the problem is probably smaller than anticipated
+
** Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
−
** don't want anything produced to appear official -- anything that appears official MUST result in a test pass and this must be avoided
+
** Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
−
** it makes sense to talk about this in the context of "Release Train" and not only "Eclipse Platform" -- Martin filed {{bug|273262}} against the AC
+
** John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
−
* Martin has some update on Sun Java 6 -- will update {{bug|261724}}
+
** Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
−
 
+
*** If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
 +
** Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 15:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve
+
'''February 5, 2014''' - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex
−
* McQ: '''Solaris x86''' - OK if we get the machine up and running until Friday, too late for swapping reference platform otherways
+
* Dani: '''Confcall Numbers:''' Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
−
* '''Polish List''' [[Polish3.5]] - Some developers don't have time for polish items. For now, it's just a list such that we *know* what's coming up.
+
* Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
−
** Martin wondering why we need a separate wiki page, bugzilla query should be enough?
+
* Alex: Testing on modern Linux
−
** Who owns the Polish list - Eclipse Project Committers. We capture items that we find "stupid" when using Eclipse ourselves.
+
−
* '''Maintenance builds after 3.4'''
+
−
** IBM will never consume any community builds: want the absolute minimum of required fixes
+
−
** If a fix shows up in any IBM product, then it is on a bug somewhere
+
−
** But fixes are never cumulative
+
−
** Martin thinks that a first step would be well-defined markup of such "released-to-product" fixes.
+
−
** Another next step is allowing Eclipse builds by the Community -- we can do anything that's not making Kim's life harder.
+
−
** How to proceed with communications: open bugs, bugzilla discussions.
+
−
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Apr 1:''' - McQ, Jeff, Martin, Steve, Philippe
+
'''January 22, 2014''' - John, Dani, Alex, Martin
−
* McQ: Solaris x86 (recommend building since Sun helped at Eclipsecon), Perf results (not trustworthy on Windows?)
+
* John, Alex: '''New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora'''
−
* Martin: M-builds beyond 3.4.2
+
** Alex been looking at Browser
−
** Two problems: (a) provide a build system that the community can use, and (b) provide a platform for accumulating fixes easily without risking version collisions etc
+
** Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
−
*** The risk of (b) is high that as a result we'd have some low-quality sea of incompatible fixes. We better don't go with this.
+
** Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
−
** Other solution is allow to cherry-pick on source level - just provide a new target milestone in bugzilla, product builders cherry-pick patches they want to apply and do so locally.
+
*** Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
−
* Jeff: OSGi tooling; future plans around build
+
*** Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
−
** We need to run builds ourselves (see also above) - e.g. equinox sdk feature is in some internal repository
+
* Dani: '''M5 Status'''
−
** PDE build has stretched pretty far over time.. what to do with it
+
** Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier
−
*** Needs to be one of the main plan items for 3.6, but don't want to wait that long
+
−
*** SAP perhaps to help out with staffing
+
−
* Boris to host the arch call since Steve, McQ, Philippe all cannot join
+
−
 
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
−
'''Mar 18:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin
+
'''January 15, 2014''' - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin
−
* no arch next week due to EclipseCon
+
* Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
−
* McQ found a performance test that is 8000% slower
+
* Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion
−
** teams are overwhelmed (but remind them to check performance tests)
+
−
* Martin reminded us about use of [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00575.html Parallel IP for Mature Projects] and JSch-0.1.41
+
−
** need to identify uses on the download links (or also inside the downloads?)
+
−
** EMO has not developed the policy yet
+
−
** McQ: "Q: Should we just not use the mechanism?"
+
−
** Downstream consumers may need to test against new lib features early. Just for test and experimentation, not for consumption: want parallel IP in I-builds
+
−
** McQ: Milestones are a corner case -- some consumers use these in products!
+
−
** Parallel IP is a tool for projects who want it. A clear policy is one thing. Guidelines for projects to adopt it or not is another thing -- may depend on the number and kind of consumers.
+
−
** Result: Martin to Bring up that topic on the [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]],
+
−
*** Example issues: can't put it in for I-build and remove for Milestone S-build
+
−
 
+
−
<hr />
+
−
 
+
−
'''Mar 11:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Martin
+
−
* Martin - '''{{bug|227055}} and late API additions'''
+
−
** McQ: after m6 is too late if it has any downstream impact (changing behavior, deleting things, ...). Plain API additions may slip a week.
+
−
** Steve: If new API has effect on performance and polish, may look more favorably.
+
−
** If going in after M6, it needs to go through the process (e-mail and public discussion on eclipse-pmc list).
+
−
** Strict API Tooling checks to be enabled next week
+
−
* McQ - '''state of M6'''; some late UI things to review
+
−
** Some low-risk polish Cocoa items for Eclipsecon (enablers)
+
−
** Still changes in p2 (after m6), but stabilizing
+
−
* Martin/Jeff - '''New Target Platform Page''' may require more tweaking - risk of breaking community workflows!
+
−
** E.g. adding a directory to the target platform; Jeff uses target platforms a lot, so he's likely more exposed than most of the Community... 10 to 15 locations with hundreds of bundles...
+
−
** Related to the {{bug|224145}} p2 "extension location" problem which broke user workflows. Don't want to have such breakage again.
+
−
* Jeff - '''Status on Galileo Must do's''' - deferred to next week
+
−
* McQ - '''p2 OSGi OBR Repositories'''
+
−
** Jeff: OSGi wants to foster bundle store / bundle repositories, and specify a repository standard (long-standing RFE112 never been ratified)
+
−
** Similar to p2, but does have some potential issues
+
−
** Ideally, Equinox would be the reference impl of whatever standard comes up... but got a staffing problem, how to get the solution standardized that we need.
+
−
*** Writing a p2 OBR repository adapter is not hard, but OBR repos won't be able to eat p2 metadata
+
−
** p2 doesn't care about XML format whereas OBR specifies the XML. p2 got more sophisticated API model. Jeff doesn't have access to the latest spec.
+
−
* Steve wants Eclipsecon demos to be done on '''Cocoa''', will expedite any bugfixes (please do file them!). Jeff needs browser integration.
+
  
 
<hr/>
 
<hr/>
 +
'''January 8, 2014''' - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ
 +
* Dani: '''API Freeze''' with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception
  
−
'''Mar 4:''' - McQ, Steve, Jeff, Philippe, Martin
+
= Archive =
−
 
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2013 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2013]]
−
* Upgrade 3.4 -> 3.5
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2012 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2012]]
−
** Will we be able to support this in p2?
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2011 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2011]]
−
*** Nope, needed hooks already in previous release (ie. needed them in 3.4 to be used by 3.5)
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2010 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2010]]
−
** Problems include replacing the Eclipse .exe
+
* [[Eclipse/PMC/Minutes 2009 | Archive of Meeting Minutes from 2009]]
−
** Is this an important use case?  There is no band width to solve this problem in 3.5
+
−
** it's a good showcase for p2 technology
+
−
** idea: put in the low level hooks for 3.5.1 and use them next time (ie. 3.5 -> 3.6)
+
−
** Did Update Manager ever do this?
+
−
*** Jeff: It does not
+
−
 
+
−
* Deprecating Mac carbon?
+
−
** Apple claims Cocoa is the future
+
−
** 3.5 will be the last version of Eclipse where Carbon is under active development
+
−
*** But will maintain for 3.6 and 3.7
+
−
** Q: Has Apple officially deprecated carbon?
+
−
*** No but they have down played it (ie. no 64-bit support for carbon)
+
−
** Should there be an official deprecation policy for platforms?
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''Feb 25:''' - McQ, Steve, Martin, Philippe
+
−
 
+
−
* AC "committers should know" mail
+
−
** '''Following external links''' McQ why not introduce some Javascript on the server that warns users automatically when they follow an external link?
+
−
** Components to projects flattening (not on our plate at the time)
+
−
* Steve Target milestones for Eclipse project
+
−
* BZ patches to be flagged when they contain API
+
−
* '''N-builds broken''' over the weekend (again) - 3 weekends in a row - no people currently who are willing to work during the weekend
+
−
** Hudson might help eventually, for now using e4 builds as the guinea pig
+
−
* '''UI Forms has no committers''' - opportunity for Community to become committer
+
−
** migrate off (using internal browser instead)
+
−
** no critical bugs, less than 125 interesting bugs
+
−
** long-term future is e4 with css/styling and declarative ui
+
−
* '''Performance:''' No news (not yet while closing down API)
+
−
** Philippe thinks that the performance milestone must be earlier since performance might touch on API. We're losing memory because rebasing
+
−
** McQ - this cycle we had a performance run in M2, this year we're in a better position than last year
+
−
 
+
−
'''Feb 18:''' -  no meeting
+
−
 
+
−
'''Feb 11:'''
+
−
 
+
−
'''Feb 4:'''
+
−
 
+
−
<hr/>
+
−
 
+
−
'''Jan 28:'''
+
−
 
+
−
* Java 6
+
−
** move reference platform to Sun 6u11
+
−
*** problem(?): Sun added 3 new items added that are licensed LGPL or GPL
+
−
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] Martin added comment to {{bug|261724}} to identify this issue
+
−
* ICU 4.0
+
−
** we will stay with 4.0
+
−
* Deprecation Policy
+
−
** still under discussion, {{bug|261544}}
+
−
* Use of internal provisional
+
−
** seems to be some consensus about *not* requiring this, {{bug|261874}}
+
−
* JDT co-leadership
+
−
** what is the process?
+
−
*** Jeff: vote in community; then propose to the PMC
+
−
*** Would like to get Dani Meghert involved.
+
−
*** Philippe will check development process documents
+
−
* Cocoa port
+
−
** Looking good
+
−
** Taking early access off and making it the "first" choice for Mac downloads
+
−
* Milestone progress / 3.4.2
+
−
** Need to discuss M5 in arch call (should have done this last week)
+
−
** Should always remind the team in the arch call of upcoming deadlines
+
−
** Performance issues that need API to fix have to happen by M6
+
−
*** Teams should understand performance results (will be discussed in a couple of weeks)
+
−
* Re: Reference Platforms
+
−
** Java6 on Solaris
+
−
*** Martin's company would like to support this
+
−
*** [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] filed {{bug|262907}} to discuss process and practices around reference platforms
+
−
 
+
−
'''Jan 21:'''
+
−
 
+
−
* How should we track meeting minutes topic - Wiki
+
−
* Provisional API conventions - Jeff working on {{bug|261874}} for discussion at the AC
+
−
** should there be a tag in the Javadoc (ie. "experimental")?
+
−
** Jeff wants to keep the concerns "conventions" vs "Javadoc" separate
+
−
** Jeff, "... Javadoc should not be generated for provisional ..."
+
−
** Martin disagrees, "... need feedback and discussion for new API ..."
+
−
* What is the '''role of the PMC lead?'''
+
−
** global view of components/processes
+
−
** organize architecture call, ensure we are on track
+
−
** spark conversations (ie. M5 is feature freeze)
+
−
* '''Reference platforms'''
+
−
** we should choose JDK1.6, "update 11" rather than "update 4"
+
−
** around "RC time", solidify the reference platform (it is the one we are testing on)
+
−
 
+
−
'''Jan 14:'''
+
−
 
+
−
* PMC component ownership x bugzilla pmc authorization
+

Revision as of 10:42, 23 April 2014

Documents

Some documents written and/or used by the PMC:

Meeting Schedule

The Eclipse Project PMC has a weekly phone meeting every wednesday at 10.30am EST.

Meeting Minutes

April 23, 2014 - McQ, Dani, John, Alex, Martin

  • Alex - GTK2 Xulrunner Crashes
    • GTK2 crashes the Browser
    • GTK3 still has some drawing issues (fighting them one by one, but functionally everything is there)
    • McQ: If neither state is really good, need to choose the option that's moving forward (switch to GTK3)
  • Dani - Freeze Plan created
  • John - Hackathon in London proposed by Ian Skerret

April 16, 2014 - Dani, Alex

  • no topics today

April 9, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani - Kepler SR2 and Java 8
    • Planning Council: Can build and host the patches, but messaging must be clear as "SR2 with the patches applied". Still polishing words of the download pages.
    • Not added to aggregate repo ... one-time package without any updates
    • Feature patch available on Marketplace (for manual update) - for those starting from scratch they can now get "Kepler + Patch"
    • Not convinced that the extra downloads were necessary (early adopters already had the patch, new adopters can also get Luna) ... but current approach won't hurt.
  • John - Hard to review all incoming Platform/UI Contributions
    • Dani tried to jump in on some issues like Icons
    • Doubt that some of the work will really help bringing committers on board (such as the for loop conversion)
    • Some of the initial contributors of very simple things have now grown into contributing real interesting things
    • Getting more people involved in initial reviews (currently some 10 active committers, 4-5 fullday ones) - but mainly Eric and Paul review patches

April 2, 2014 - Dani, Alex, John, Martin

  • Dani - new GTK3+ issues
    • crash/hang when SWT AWT bridge is used, also affects JavaFX (bug 431330)
    • problems with main menu (bug 419830)
  • Dani - Submitting the IP Log for the Java 8 Work
    • Currently not qualified as a "release", only submitting the IP log.
  • Dani - need to approve API changes for Java 8 in M7
    • No API changes, only additions
    • Used / tested by JDT Core / JDT UI
    • ObjectTeams (Stephan Herrmann) was involved
    • There were no objections i.e. changes were approved
  • John - SWT over JavaFX
    • EclipseCon: Steve Northover thought it was possible, just a lot of work
    • Decide after Luna whether hosting in SWT or doing as a separate project
    • Relationship to Tom Schindl's e(fx)clipse project ?
      • e(fx)clipse is more about tooling, not so much about rendering ...
      • Tom seems to have an alpha version, but not actively working on it
      • Seem to need some additional API in SWT - patch sits in Gerrit with nobody putting any attention at the moment. Details in bug 426243
      • Having this API in place would make the JavaFX port simpler
        • It look good but Alex has no idea whether it's the best idea and how acceptable on all platforms
        • John: May make sense in the next release, API can't be a near-term thing ... needs some backers who can invest significant time in it
      • Doug Schaefer is also pushing for JavaFX


March 26, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • John - EclipseCon Update
    • Slightly smaller than in the past, but VERY of positive attitude, LOT of excitement around Java 8 ... Oracle turned on the servers during one of the morning sessions
    • IoT / M2M - lots of demos on Raspberry Pi, many new projects
    • Very good content around Orion and Javascript, but a small crowd
    • Great opening keynote from Mike Milinkovich on the history and future of Eclipse - mentioned Flux
    • See also Blog Posts from Doug Schaefer and Ian Bull as well as top 5 from Ian
  • John - ARM port of GTK - any tracking items ?
    • Bug exists for Launchers on ARM64 ; several other items too
    • IBM PPC Little Endian port of SWT
    • Test on less used architectures like Solaris? - similar to the Windows 8 case...
    • Donating RHEL subscriptions to the Foundation was not accepted - John: Bug is open for having Hudson slaves run on other architectures
      • Example: bug 430698, bug 429237, bug 415757; bug 419855 talks about running virtualbox images on a vserver
      • Denis is investigating some way running Hudson / HIPP instances on other hardware ... GTK3, Windows etc tests need other hardware
      • Check for cost of hardware, companies to donate it, and people to maintain it (Security patches!)
        • Alex could imagine RH signing up for some maintenance ... test machines could be entirely outside Eclipse.org infrastructure, isolated as their own sandbox
        • Hudson needs access though, thus need to be careful about security
  • Alex - Java 8 vs Java 7 currently can't build an Eclipse SDK when the build machine has only one of the JDK's
    • In the past, it was possible to build with only Java 7 ... now, if I have Java 8 I cannot build (need Java 7 too)
    • ==> Update on March 27 by Dani: this is bug 390889 and we'll try to fix it for M7.

March 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, McQ

  • McQ - Congrats on Java 8 Release to coincide with the Oracle release
  • Dani - Windows 8 Support - any answer to John's E-Mail ?
    • McQ struggles with calling it a supported platform when nobody tests it; all we need to make sure is that somebody uses it
    • Send note to Wayne, the epp-dev list and cross-project
    • Make it clear that running on Win8 is a useful contribution ... and we WON't put Win8 on supported platforms list if we don't get that confirmation

March 12, 2014 - Alex, Martin, McQ, John

  • GTK - SWT team discussions
  • John - preparing for Java 8 release

March 5, 2014 - John, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: How to Avoid Spam in Gerrit - Bug in Bugzilla PMC bucket - consider offline
  • Dani: Windows 8 Support
    • Not listed in official plan
    • No technical problem, but lack of resources - only 1 machine on the IBM team and that's a VM
    • Add as supported Platform for Luna, or wait another year ?
    • Most active development is on Linux and Windows 7 these days... agree with Dani that only active developer use helps finding real issues
    • AI John: Send a note to eclipse-dev
      • Reaching out to Community to find an active user would be sufficient ... WPF or Win32 ? WPF is only a runtime target environment as of today.
  • Dani: State of GTK 3+
    • Not yet fixed on Eclipse side, but GTK found a bug on their side that is going to be fixed; not yet sure though if that will fix everything
    • Launcher now has a fallback to GTK2 if it detects the partially supported GTK3 version
    • Good collaboration after an initial warm-up phase ... Eclipse SWT considered an important-enough client to make fixes for
    • Alex: Concerned about users with a GTK 3.8 distro that update to GTK 3.10 and get the fallback to GTK 2 activated which has crashes with autocomplete in the browser
    • On GTK 3.9 or newer, Launcher falls back to GTK 2 but that port is pretty much unmaintained, several other problems in there ... but not falling back is even worse
    • Should be fine once distros start picking up paint / clipping issue fix (the not-drawing fix is still pending on SWT side)
  • Alex: GTK 3 in Mars
    • Bump minimum required version to only use cairo and get rid of older calls - this causes confusion with GTK folk
    • RHEL 5 would no longer work
    • Thanks to SWT now requiring Java 1.5, can simplify the code wrt JNI

February 26, 2014 - Alex, John, Martin, McQ

  • John: Orion Release this week
  • Alex: Eclipse on ARM64
    • Launcher and swt at first
    • Had ports for other architectures in source form in the past, risk to get stale but helps getting the ball rolling
    • John: Quite a lot steps to make a new Platform real - constants in OSGi, ... - but can happen piecemeal eg only do SWT first
      • Martin: Would make sense to document the required steps for adding a new Platform while doing the job
      • At least, write up the TODO list - in order to make it easier the next time
    • Should ask Tom Watson about OSGi constants
  • Dani: Update on GTK 3+ issue - bug filed against GTK, working on a workaround for fallback but not yet finished
    • Alex: Fix in GTK3 alone wouldn't work because SWT overrides GTK in that part
    • McQ: If SWT API can't be implemented on top of new GTK API any more, discussion needs to happen
      • If SWT does something wrong, would need pointers to what they should be doing instead...
      • Maybe a couple phone calls to talk through the technical details
      • Don't fight over things ... figure out what's the right thing to do, and just do it


February 19, 2014 - Dani, Alex, Martin, John

  • Dani: Silenio to work on GTK issue?
  • John: GTK testing at the Eclipse Foundation
  • John: e4 ML discussion about graduating some tools
    • Model Editor, CSS Editor, CSS Spy, ...
    • Fairly late, but risk is rather low -- suggest putting into PDE
    • Dani concerns: No PDE committers available for handholding - and stuff is not polished; even Lars sees it in Luna+1
    • John: These tools would only be used by people building RCP apps
    • Martin: What is the goal of trying to graduate?
      • If it's just about getting more exposure, perhaps keep in incubation and add to the RCP EPP Package ?
    • Alex would like adding new people / interested contributors to PDE

February 5, 2014 - McQ, Dani, Martin, Alex

  • Dani: Confcall Numbers: Skype into the US tollfree; Alex use SIP
  • Martin: Eclipse 4 vs Eclipse 3.x - will file defects
  • Alex: Testing on modern Linux

January 22, 2014 - John, Dani, Alex, Martin

  • John, Alex: New GTK 3.10 breaking Eclipse on latest Fedora
    • Alex been looking at Browser
    • Some Views not showing up - Silenio just back yesterday
    • Dani: For 4.4m5 and 4.3.2, will document issues in the README
      • Considered a fallback to "gtk2" support in the Launcher, but that was considered too risky
      • Silenio might have a workaround ... OK if the new code can be added conditionally for GTK 3.10 only
  • Dani: M5 Status
    • Still many open bugs not triaged - component leads should triage earlier

January 15, 2014 - McQ, Andrew, Dani, Martin

  • Dani: Lakshmi (SWT Team) going on maternity leave - SWT still a decent team of 4
  • Andrew: PMC Participation - Suggestion

January 8, 2014 - Dani, Martin, Andrew, John, McQ

  • Dani: API Freeze with M6 on March 7, but JDT cannot put Java 8 stuff in before (March 18) thus will have to ask for an exception

Archive

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