E4/Resources/Meeting/14-Nov-2008

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Meeting Title: E4 Resources meeting
Date & Time: Friday Nov 14, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 11am EST / 8am PST
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Canada and US Toll Free: (866) 740-7083
International Dial-in: +1 (702) 696-4217 (more numbers here)
Conference ID: 613 277 0037 #

Contents

Attendees

  • Signed-up:
    • Wind River - Doug Schaefer, Martin Oberhuber, Michael Scharf
    • Freescale - Serge Beauchamp
    • NVidia - Eric Frey
    • IBM - John Arthorne, Szymon Brandys
    • Embarcadero - Kenn Hussey
    • Google - Terry Parker

Agenda/Notes

Feel free to edit, but not during the meeting

Review of Action Items

Provisioning

  • CVS Repo done, feel free to start committing, feature branches?
    • Bundle versions: push minor version by 100, e.g. 3.2.0 --> 3.102.0
    • Paul will create feature patches such that e4 resource stuff can be dropped into 3.5 stream builds
  • Releng - Paul Webster about 70% done, based on CBI, expect downloadable builds + update site for resources by end next week
    • org.eclipse.ui.ide is shared between e4 UI work and e4 Resources work. May lead to conflits as we can't be compatible with e4 and 3.5 at the same time. Splitting UI.IDE was discussed such that the e4 UI can do its own stuff in its own plugins. A split could be done in the 3.5 Stream too. Can we move resource related UI into a separate plugin?
    • John: ui.ide plugin is already resources factored out from the rest of UI... probably not more to factor out, the impact of modeled UI on the ui.ide plugin will probably be pretty small... but too early right now to assess. At the moment, the org.eclipse.ui.ide plugin is in the "resources" branch only.

Current work items (master bugs)

  • bug 252996 - Serge: Resource Tree Filters - ready to commit to e4 for review
  • bug 245412 - Martin: Physically nested projects - many related bugs e.g. James Blackburn bug 253898 LaunchManager
  • bug 233939 - Martin: Alias Management for symlinks - James Blackburn filed bug 253912 common IResource for all aliases
  • bug 229633 - Serge: Linked resources with relative path / variable-based; grouping feature - will start committing soon
  • bug 253705 - Szymon: Support for "branched" file systems (EFS for iSeries) - no coding yet but collected some iFS material
  • bug 255425 - Terry: Add a transactional way to update projects
  • Faceted Project Framework - Eric Frey been looking at it, looks very interesting on the surface, would like to see it in CDT
    • Might be a path towards the idea of "Resource Views" with filtered notifications / improved working sets
  • Lightweight Resources: Terry Parker (tried TPTP now for profiling, now using JProfiler (slows down by 5-10x) - got pulled off into something else
    • Multi-Language (C/C++/Python), initializing projects in multiple stages, firing CDT indexer off too early (before ready with initialization)
      • Thinks about a "working copy" mechanism like in Launch Configs for the Project Wizard
      • "Event Storm" when creating/importing a project
      • Doug: Transaction based system?
      • John: ProjectDescription works a little bit like that... can make many changes to be committed only when setting it
      • Terry: ProjectDescription is not enough, CDT/JDT/Python have other places where they store things... like Java classpath for instance
      • Doug: That stuff should have been in ProjectDescription, but the data model is not rich enough
      • AI Terry file a bug 255425 for that idea
      • John, Martin, Michael: YourKit should be good... allows a mode with almost zero overhead, can start profiling at any time
    • (not discussed today) Remote File System: Chris Recoskie (currently releasing PTP/RDT, will jump on e4 later, no news)

It looks like we're building things bottom up.

Discussion

  • Metadata: Sharing/Linking/Inheritance of project settings? Pluggable Project Persistence? What to do for Build stuff
    • bug 194414 recent discussion about sharing / multi-setting project properties
      • Michael: If Preferences, Properties, Build Settings, Compiler Options, ... all use one common "modeled" mechanism e.g. based on EMF, then it would be possible to have one common mechanism for sharing. Could even think about database queries, tables etc... multi-changes based on queries and more advanced stuff... we might want to come up with a more general mechanism for things e.g. based on OQL
      • Martin: modeled "core" sounds very interesting, but it will be a challenge to come up with a UI to reflect these in an easy manner... would need some "why" reasoning that shows users why a setting is the way it is
      • Michael: Preferences Default: cannot see if any field is unset (i.e. pick up the default) or happens to be set to the default... also, every little tool does their own thing. We need a common mechanism to deal with layered systems and defaults.
      • Martin: Modeled Preferences system could also lead the way towards Policies/User roles, allowing admins to limit what users are allowed to set/change
      • Michael: Prefs should be in the non-UI layer.. that's currently not being discussed by the "modeled UI" folks.
      • John: OSGi Preference mechanism already has a good model of Preferences on Core level; the trick is the semantics of association, relating preferences with each other ("if A is set to 1.5 then B,C,D must be enabled"). That's what should be modeled in non-UI.
      • AI Martin file a bug against E4/Resources, requesting a uniform mechanism for describing Preferences relationships and storing that data in a uniform way (above OSGi Preferences).
  • E4/Resources/Definitions of Terms what is a workspace?
    • Martin: Workspace has scalability issues: too many things in it, often unrelated... see also lazy resources proposed by Martin
    • Michael: Switching workspace or closing project is too slow, therefore my workspace is cluttered with too many things
    • John: ResourcesPlugin "Workspace" != Platform.instanceLocation "Workspace" which spans all plugins. Splitting those two concepts should be interesting. This would allow switching "Resources" Workspace without shutting down Eclipse and thus be much faster
    • Terry: Google tends to have large projects, not-so-large workspaces. Metadata being corrupted is a problem... decoupling might help
    • Michael: Metadata is not transactional, if Eclipse gets into a deadlock while writing metadata it's in an inconsistent state
    • Terry: No clean separation between metadata written by users and "generated" metadata
    • Doug: Want better export/import
    • bug 245405 workspace description files for pushing workspace prefs to team members / facilitated on-boarding
    • bug 245399 multi-workspace
    • AI John find or create bug for separating workspace concepts

Action Items

  • Serge commit his patches to e4 resources
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 255371 for Modeled Preferences
  • Ok green.gif Terry bug 255425 file bug for Project Creation Working Copy (transaction)
  • John find or file bug for separating resources workspace from Platform.instanceLocation and reference on the meeting notes page

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