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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=4 | Meeting Title: | '''TCF Round Table Meeting''' |- | Date & Time: | Thursday [[Mar 12, 2009]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=3&day=12&year=2009&hour=17&min=00&sec=0&p1=0 1700 UTC / 1300 EST / 10am PST]<br>[[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/vn70im36r00qeusu8nme50cils@group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal],[[Image:Xml.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/feeds/vn70im36r00qeusu8nme50cils%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic ATOM News Feed],[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=vn70im36r00qeusu8nme50cils@group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] |- | Dialo-in: | International '''+44 (0)1452 567588''' Freephone '''+1 (866) 6161738''' / Passcode: '''0587322148 #''' |} == Attendees == * See the [http://www.doodle.com/gma4ewgfdngw4gga Doodle Attendance Poll] for the meeting * '''Wind River''' - Martin Oberhuber, Brian Nettleton, Doug Gaff, Doug Schaefer, Pawel Piech, Eugene Tarassov, Felix Burton * '''MontaVista''' - Anna Dushistova, Joe Green, Yufen Kuo * '''Freescale''' - Ed Swarthout, Daniel Friederich * '''Anyware Technologies''' - Gaetan Morice * '''Nokia''' - Ken Ryall * '''ST-Ericsson''' - Henrik Wallinder * '''Eldorado/TmL''' - Fabio Fantato == Agenda/Notes == '''Feel free to edit, but <font color="red">not during the meeting</font>''' * See the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dsdp-tm-dev/msg02245.html original invitation] === How is TCF being used today? === * Brian, Windriver - using TCF for a '''remote test product''' (customer specific at this time) * Joe, Montavista - not currently using TCF, but interested in standardizing on TCF for target communications * Gaetan, Anyware - using their own (branched) implementation in a product for target communications - some patches on bugzilla ** Moved in a slightly different direction since, because there is no agent on the target - need to merge proprietarty protocol ** TCF not extendable enough at the moment for proprietary extensions ** Moving in the right direction with integration of patches ** Looking at OSGi to manage target access, want a standalone client as an OSGi bundle * Daniel, Freescale - creating an agent on the host (in C++) - have their own '''C++ TCF library''' ** Might be a candidate for contributing eventually, but not his to decide * Ed, Freescale - (a different group) - using TCF agent as-is on a PPC card for transaction services, have a '''simple C wrapper on the client''' ** Using standalone client as example with a simple C wrapper around, candidate for contribution * Fabio, Eldorado / TmL project - using TCF agent for accessing linux system's /proc information, also working on Kernel access (will be in next TmL release) * Henrik, ST-Ericsson - early phase, want a '''secure encrypted transport''' for handling logging on mobile phones (proof of concept for now); ** initially a bridge: agent on the PC, linking to proprietary libs, end goal porting agent to ARM; performance is top important (because of huge amount of logging data) ** Regarding contribution, not sure about legal situation, but can contribute bugzilla's (encryption for instance) ** Wanted a headless lib initially, removed the Eclipse dependency, running plain Java * Ken, Nokia - Devtools group, but there are several other groups looking at TCF as well ** Working on debugging tools; TCF agents for native windows debugging and symbian debugging on the device; agent for '''symbol reading DWARF files''' (not based on prototype agent's code) - Felix wants to align on interfaces for symbol reading ** Symbian agent won't run on the device initially (start as a bridge), may move to the device eventually ** Using core protocol and parts of the agent at the moment -- their agent is C++, so removed stuff of the reference agent === Discussion === * Gaetan: Biggest problem is '''missing possibility to use protocol other than TCP/IP, e.g. serial'''; contribution is there but not (yet) accepted; but understands that it is a hard problem ** Felix: Design is that it should be possible to add other channels - what's missing is somebody taking the time to implement (serial, udp, etc) ** Today, most people build bridges; When Henrik moves TCF to the phone, would they use TCP? - Not yet sure, might use UDP ** Wind River interested in other protocols, but no time yet * Brian had trouble '''getting information what the plan or schedule is''' ** When is a release, when is a good time to pick up a stable version, ...? ** Martin: blackbox adoption (using unchanged downloads) vs. whitebox adoption (using, changing, exploring technology in source code) *** Ken: More interested in whitebox - picking up technology - hasn't had problems with HEAD so far *** Anna: MV would be interested in more communications like planning ** Fabio: Dependency of TCF -> TM; ** Ed: Would like a plan of additional activities: what major components does everybody work on, what's going on? *** Martin: Bugzilla is the preferred means for discussion * Martin: Disjoint communities at Power.org and Eclipse - how to bring them closer together? ** Felix: Power.org discussions result in proposals on Eclipse.org for further discussion ** No forked standardization at power.org, will be populated as a bugzilla entry on Eclipse * Martin: maturity status information about the protocol: what's frozen vs. what's work in progress? ** Compatibility is an issue, always try to keep the protocol compatible; doc should say what parts of the protocol are frozen ** '''AI Felix''' add versioning information to the documents; only make backward compatible changes after a given freeze * Newcomers - Henrik/Peter: really liked the TCF Specification document, would have appreciated '''more "Getting Started" stuff''' ** Would like '''more comments in the source code''' ** Martin: encourage to '''file bugs for missing comments, and/or contribute patches with comments''' ** Felix: It's easily '''possible to become a committer on TCF''' === Release / Plans === * Making a release clarifies status, but may also hinder innovation ** Attendees do not have any concrete need for a release, seems mostly whitebox adoption. == Summary == * In general, it looks like everybody is happy with how the project works ** Martin clarified communication channels and encouraged filing bugzilla's and sending to the mailing list. * Question: Announcement about Eclipse Pulsar (Platform for Mobile), using TCF? ** '''AI Henrik''' Send question on the mailing list, Felix to look at it == Action Items == * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to schedule a round-table call * '''Felix''' to add versioning information into TCF Specification Document * '''Fabio''' to pick up TCF->TM dependency issue on the mailing list * '''Henrik''' to mention Eclipse Pulsar on the mailing list and ask whether they are using TCF == Next Meeting == * We didn't see a need to schedule another meeting, will discuss on offline media (mailing list). <!-- Next [[DSDP/TCF/Meetings/26-Mar-2009]] (2 weeks after, at EclipseCon) -->

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