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Difference between revisions of "DSDP/DD/Face-to-face Toronto 22-Feb-2006"

< DSDP‎ | DD
Line 7: Line 7:
 
* Eclipse 3.2 Debug Platform
 
* Eclipse 3.2 Debug Platform
 
** Demos / feedback session on prototyping – IBM, Wind River, QNX/CDT, others?
 
** Demos / feedback session on prototyping – IBM, Wind River, QNX/CDT, others?
 +
 
*** Pawel Piech - Wind River
 
*** Pawel Piech - Wind River
 
**** Implemented directly against platform
 
**** Implemented directly against platform
Line 15: Line 16:
 
***** Need public interface to get at standard images for label providers
 
***** Need public interface to get at standard images for label providers
 
***** Column support in views is incomplete at this point
 
***** Column support in views is incomplete at this point
 +
 
*** Alan Boxall
 
*** Alan Boxall
 
**** Implemented directly against platform
 
**** Implemented directly against platform
Line 23: Line 25:
 
**** Number of jobs is somewhat alarming.  (See performance discussions below.)
 
**** Number of jobs is somewhat alarming.  (See performance discussions below.)
 
**** Plan to do some prototyping against flexible hierarchy after 3.2 is released.
 
**** Plan to do some prototyping against flexible hierarchy after 3.2 is released.
 +
 
*** Mikhail Khodjaiants, QNX
 
*** Mikhail Khodjaiants, QNX
 
**** (presentation)
 
**** (presentation)
**** Requests to provide customized versions of variables and registers view.  Probably will happen after CDT 3.2.
+
**** CDT has requests to provide customized versions of variables and registers view.  Probably will happen after CDT 3.2.
 
**** Using compatibility mode right now for flexibile hierarchy (for 3.1).  Still need more investigation for how to expose customization.
 
**** Using compatibility mode right now for flexibile hierarchy (for 3.1).  Still need more investigation for how to expose customization.
 +
 +
**** TI:
 +
***** We need flexible hierarchy exposed at CDI layer.
 +
***** We use disassmebly view.  Need a disassembly memory renderer.
 +
***** Summary, they need flexibility at top and bottom.
 +
***** They would like to see CDT define a more embedded-centric user experience without major changes to CDI.
 +
***** Some view customizations.
 +
 +
**** Freescale:
 +
***** Multi-core flexibility is important.
 +
 +
**** Nokia:
 +
***** Similar comments to TI.
 +
 
*** ATI
 
*** ATI
 
**** Builds against Eclipse platform, but haven't had a chance to look at 3.2 yet.
 
**** Builds against Eclipse platform, but haven't had a chance to look at 3.2 yet.
 +
 
*** AMI
 
*** AMI
 
**** Builds against Eclipse platform.
 
**** Builds against Eclipse platform.
****  
+
**** Migrated an old VB debugger.  Looked at CDT and did some prototyping, but decided it would be too much work.
*** TI, Freescale, Nokia
+
**** They are lacking some features using the platform directly, but also believe they have less problems.  One big issue was using GDB with their architecture.
**** Build against CDT - interested in CDT's plans for 3.2 EDM.
+
**** First product: Oct 05 and based on 3.1.
**** TI has done some view customization, too.
+
**** Biggest issue is trying to use the memory view with their architecture.
 +
**** Haven't prototyped against 3.2 EDM yet, but they can benefit from simplified hiearchy.  Update policies are also critically important because of very slow target connections.  Will focus on 3.2 after April.
 +
**** Continually re-evaluate CDT. Could potentially use parts of CDT.
 +
 
 
*** PalmSource
 
*** PalmSource
****  
+
**** Have a released product on 3.0 with a customized CDT.
 +
**** Working on a 3.1-based product with un-modified CDT.  Trying to use GDB.
 +
**** Also like view customization.
  
**** TI: Demo of customizations
+
* TI: Demo of view customizations in E 3.1
 
+
*** Variables and registers view are in table tree format (using tree control)
** Performance discussion
+
** Using the editor with multiple debugging backends
+
** API versioning - adding new interfaces on top of old ones vs. deprecating.  When are interfaces collapsed together
+
** Changes beyond 3.2
+
  
 +
!!!!!
 
** Progress Update – Darin W (IBM)
 
** Progress Update – Darin W (IBM)
 +
!!!!!
  
 
+
* Performance discussion
 +
*** IBM will come to EclipseCon that shows performance across multiple versions
 +
*** Concerns about the large numbers of working threads spawned
 +
*** Will have some suggestions for performance improvements
 +
*** Action items:  each company should run its own performance numbers
  
 
* Update Policy  
 
* Update Policy  
 
** Progress Update – Samantha (IBM)
 
** Progress Update – Samantha (IBM)
 +
*** (presentation)
 +
***
 
** Discussion on how UI should expose the policies
 
** Discussion on how UI should expose the policies
 +
 +
* Memory View
 +
 +
 +
* Using the editor with multiple debugging backends
 +
* API versioning - adding new interfaces on top of old ones vs. deprecating.  When are interfaces collapsed together
 +
* Changes beyond 3.2
 +
 
* Contributions and Participation Discussion
 
* Contributions and Participation Discussion
 
** Update/Demo on Memory Rendering and suggestions for API changes – Ted W (Wind River)
 
** Update/Demo on Memory Rendering and suggestions for API changes – Ted W (Wind River)
Line 63: Line 98:
 
*** Discussion of requirements/use cases for flexible hierarchy in CDT.  Does it make sense for CDT to expose any of this or stay with a fixed hierarchy?
 
*** Discussion of requirements/use cases for flexible hierarchy in CDT.  Does it make sense for CDT to expose any of this or stay with a fixed hierarchy?
 
*** Debug console
 
*** Debug console
** Committer List
+
 
 +
* Committer List
 +
 
 
* Miscellaneous
 
* Miscellaneous
 
** Eclipse 3.2 launching framework feedback
 
** Eclipse 3.2 launching framework feedback
 +
 +
* Brainstorming session on view customization
 +
** Clone and pin

Revision as of 13:56, 22 February 2006

Agenda & Attendee List

Presentations

Minutes

  • Eclipse 3.2 Debug Platform
    • Demos / feedback session on prototyping – IBM, Wind River, QNX/CDT, others?
      • Pawel Piech - Wind River
        • Implemented directly against platform
        • (presentation)
        • The current state of the flexible hierachy aligns well with WR's debugger implementation.
        • Main issues at this point:
          • Need retargetable actions
          • Need public interface to get at standard images for label providers
          • Column support in views is incomplete at this point
      • Alan Boxall
        • Implemented directly against platform
        • Moving from 3.0 to 3.1 - the biggest challenge was to get the multi-threaded UI to talk to their synchronous debug engine.
          • They queue up all asynchronous requests. They use a lot of caching.
        • They are using the compatibility mode right now.
        • Taking advantage of 3.2 EDM in the future: eventually, IBM's debug engines will drive the hieararchy.
        • Number of jobs is somewhat alarming. (See performance discussions below.)
        • Plan to do some prototyping against flexible hierarchy after 3.2 is released.
      • Mikhail Khodjaiants, QNX
        • (presentation)
        • CDT has requests to provide customized versions of variables and registers view. Probably will happen after CDT 3.2.
        • Using compatibility mode right now for flexibile hierarchy (for 3.1). Still need more investigation for how to expose customization.
        • TI:
          • We need flexible hierarchy exposed at CDI layer.
          • We use disassmebly view. Need a disassembly memory renderer.
          • Summary, they need flexibility at top and bottom.
          • They would like to see CDT define a more embedded-centric user experience without major changes to CDI.
          • Some view customizations.
        • Freescale:
          • Multi-core flexibility is important.
        • Nokia:
          • Similar comments to TI.
      • ATI
        • Builds against Eclipse platform, but haven't had a chance to look at 3.2 yet.
      • AMI
        • Builds against Eclipse platform.
        • Migrated an old VB debugger. Looked at CDT and did some prototyping, but decided it would be too much work.
        • They are lacking some features using the platform directly, but also believe they have less problems. One big issue was using GDB with their architecture.
        • First product: Oct 05 and based on 3.1.
        • Biggest issue is trying to use the memory view with their architecture.
        • Haven't prototyped against 3.2 EDM yet, but they can benefit from simplified hiearchy. Update policies are also critically important because of very slow target connections. Will focus on 3.2 after April.
        • Continually re-evaluate CDT. Could potentially use parts of CDT.
      • PalmSource
        • Have a released product on 3.0 with a customized CDT.
        • Working on a 3.1-based product with un-modified CDT. Trying to use GDB.
        • Also like view customization.
  • TI: Demo of view customizations in E 3.1
      • Variables and registers view are in table tree format (using tree control)

!!!!!

    • Progress Update – Darin W (IBM)

!!!!!

  • Performance discussion
      • IBM will come to EclipseCon that shows performance across multiple versions
      • Concerns about the large numbers of working threads spawned
      • Will have some suggestions for performance improvements
      • Action items: each company should run its own performance numbers
  • Update Policy
    • Progress Update – Samantha (IBM)
      • (presentation)
    • Discussion on how UI should expose the policies
  • Memory View


  • Using the editor with multiple debugging backends
  • API versioning - adding new interfaces on top of old ones vs. deprecating. When are interfaces collapsed together
  • Changes beyond 3.2
  • Contributions and Participation Discussion
    • Update/Demo on Memory Rendering and suggestions for API changes – Ted W (Wind River)
    • How can we get better participation to help Darin out on the debugger interfaces and views?
    • Feedback cycle schedule on platform - when do we start reviewing Eclipse 3.2+
    • Where do we want to go next? Volunteers for implementation?
      • New breakpoint features?
      • More memory rendering?
      • Multi-core
      • Sample debugger implementation from Wind River?
      • Discussion of requirements/use cases for flexible hierarchy in CDT. Does it make sense for CDT to expose any of this or stay with a fixed hierarchy?
      • Debug console
  • Committer List
  • Miscellaneous
    • Eclipse 3.2 launching framework feedback
  • Brainstorming session on view customization
    • Clone and pin