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= CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013 =
 
= CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013 =
  
We have scheduled a one-day CDT summit at EclipseCon 2013 in Boston, MA, on Thursday the 28th of March, 2013. To help plan for this meeting, please sign up and add any agenda items you'd like to see discussed.  
+
A one-day CDT summit was held at EclipseCon 2013 in Boston, MA, on Thursday the 28th of March, 2013.
  
 
EclipseCon information is here: [http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/ http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/]
 
EclipseCon information is here: [http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/ http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/]
Line 10: Line 10:
 
Room: Beacon Hill 2 & 3
 
Room: Beacon Hill 2 & 3
  
== Attendees and Interests ==
+
== Planned Attendees and Interests ==
  
 
# Marc Khouzam - Ericsson
 
# Marc Khouzam - Ericsson
Line 39: Line 39:
 
# Greg Watson - IBM
 
# Greg Watson - IBM
 
# Brian Watt - IBM
 
# Brian Watt - IBM
 +
# Teodor Madan - Freescale
 +
# Jesper Eskilson - IAR Systems
 +
#* MBS, TCF, indexer
 +
# Patrick Tasse - Ericsson
  
== Agenda ==
+
== Proposed Agenda ==
* '''Eclipse 4.x discussion:'''
+
* Eclipse 4.x discussion:
 
** reactions to 4.x platform
 
** reactions to 4.x platform
 
** CDT compatibility and/or upgrade plans
 
** CDT compatibility and/or upgrade plans
 
** effect on other projects, Visualizer, etc.<br/>(e.g. if CDT retains 3.x compatibility, related plugins may need to as well)
 
** effect on other projects, Visualizer, etc.<br/>(e.g. if CDT retains 3.x compatibility, related plugins may need to as well)
  
* Debug
+
* Java 7
** Quick Launches (Local C/C++ App, Remote C/C++ App)
+
** UI Junit tests: Dependency injection vs other CDT UI test techniques
+
  
 
* Advertising new CDT features
 
* Advertising new CDT features
 
** Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
 
** Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
 
** Other?
 
** Other?
 +
 +
* UI Junit tests: Dependency injection vs other CDT UI test techniques
 +
 +
* Debug
 +
** Quick Launches (Local C/C++ App, Remote C/C++ App)
 +
** Multiprocess launch
 +
 +
* Remote/synchronized projects
  
 
* ...
 
* ...
 +
 +
== Minutes ==
 +
* Introductions
 +
** 25 attendees from 14 companies
 +
** 7 CDT Committers present as well as 3 Linux Tools and 2 PTP committers
 +
<br>
 +
* E4
 +
** What is the gain to start using E4 APIs?
 +
*** Easier to modify the look of the UI -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
 +
*** Uniformity of the look and feel -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
 +
*** QNX feels the UI must be improved -- Does that require E4?
 +
*** Once the CDT community agrees we can use E4 APIs, the decision to do so can be left to individual committers.  There does not seem to be a reason we'd have to move ''all'' of CDT.  We can instead take a joint E4 and 3.x approach.
 +
** Is there a reason to avoid all use of E4 APIs?
 +
*** We want to keep CDT compiling on 3.x
 +
*** We can re-discuss this requirement for the Luna release
 +
<br>
 +
* Can CDT support platform -1?  Meaning the new CDT with the older platform.
 +
** CDT 8.2 is the first CDT that will allow that.  It was not a conscious decision.  We don't expect we we will be able, or want to enforce this.
 +
<br>
 +
* Java 7
 +
** We'll consider moving to Java 7 when the need arises
 +
<br>
 +
* Web integration in Eclipse
 +
** It is a mess and needs platform involvement.  They are well aware of the problems.
 +
<br>
 +
* Advertising new CDT features
 +
** Welcome page
 +
*** Probably already does all it can.  But we have to make sure it points to a the latest wiki N&N or a migration of it.
 +
** N&N is very important
 +
** We need to keep the CDT website up to date and describing feature
 +
** We need auto-discovery of features.  For example, people may have upgraded to CDT automatically and therefore will not know to look at the N&N
 +
*** Mylyn has some active pop-up feature for just that purpose.  CDT should look into it and copy it.
 +
*** We will need to define policies
 +
** Can we leverage the splash screen to show the user some feature description when they are just staring at the screen.
 +
*** This is a great idea!
 +
*** Different images can be randomly shown
 +
*** This must be package based (EPP)
 +
*** As for vendors, it will be up to them to re-use this ability or not
 +
** Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
 +
*** Not a user-friendly solution
 +
<br>
 +
* Redistribution of CDT
 +
** Maven/Tycho is the way to go
 +
<br>
 +
* CDT Launches
 +
** too many launch types, should be able to do more single-click launch of apps
 +
*** local start
 +
*** remote start
 +
*** attach local
 +
*** attach remote
 +
** Ideas proposed
 +
*** quick-launch in run/debug menus
 +
*** add non-project start debug menu item to Debug As... submenu
 +
*** use "clickable" attach/start... nodes under the gdb process node
 +
*** hyperlinks on the "gdb" node ("Start process / Attach process")
 +
*** maybe have tooltip on gdb node, or "Click me" text
 +
*** add "Right click to do X", to suggest looking at context menu
 +
*** quick launch that just starts gdb and when "Select Binary" is selected, the value is populated in the launch, which gets added to quick-launch menu
 +
*** adding one or two predefined launches to CDT
 +
*** add "pencil" edit button to launch line
 +
*** postpone selection of local vs. remote, default is local
 +
*** one launch, wizard to select "essential" high-level options
 +
** perhaps along with other stuff we just need to clarify the names of the launches:
 +
*** C/C++ Run Local App
 +
*** C/C++ Run Remote App
 +
*** C/C++ Attach Local App
 +
*** C/C++ Attach Remote App
 +
*** Maybe internally these all create a single launch type, but it's good to have the various names for new-user discoverability.
 +
<br>
 +
* Proposal for Multi-Process debugging launch
 +
** can use launch groups, but inconvenient and would create multiple launches
 +
** Vladimir from Mentor presented new CodeBench launch type with Web 2.0-style layout
 +
*** Overview tab summarizes debugger and executables
 +
*** links allow drill-down to more specific and advanced option pages
 +
*** "breadcrumb" links allow navigation
 +
*** maybe have multiple views/presentations of same launch properties?
 +
*** maybe a search box to "find" appropriate page
 +
** Demo and new look for launch was very well received!
 +
** Two separate issues addressed
 +
**# Updating the UI
 +
**# Allowing multiple executables
 +
** For the UI we should consider using this launch UI for all CDT launches
 +
** Mentor will continue work on this and will post to open-source
 +
** For Luna, the new launch UI from Mentor will be proposed to the community as the new CDT launch UI (once it is polished a bit more)
 +
<br>
 +
* Remote/synchronized projects
 +
** PTP Remote Projects (4.0)
 +
** PTP Synchronized Projects (5.0)
 +
*** projects local, synchronized with remote, build/launch is remote
 +
*** UNC paths to locate remote include files, etc.
 +
*** separate configurations on both sides, can filter what gets synchronized
 +
*** API built on top of local/remote-tools/RSE platforms
 +
 +
=== Decisions ===
 +
* E4
 +
** CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will not use any E4 APIs to keep compatibility with 3.x.
 +
** CDT will not commit to supporting 3.x as a platform for the CDT 8.2 release.
 +
** For the future CDT release (Luna), the decision with regards to using E4 APIs is not taken yet.  It will be discussed further after the Kepler release.
 +
* Java
 +
** CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will run on Java 6
 +
** No decision to move to Java 7 for the next release at this time.

Latest revision as of 14:13, 2 April 2013

Contents

[edit] CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013

A one-day CDT summit was held at EclipseCon 2013 in Boston, MA, on Thursday the 28th of March, 2013.

EclipseCon information is here: http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/

Open to all, even if you didn't sign up :).

Time: 10:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.
Room: Beacon Hill 2 & 3

[edit] Planned Attendees and Interests

  1. Marc Khouzam - Ericsson
    • Debug, Multicore, Visualizer
  2. Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver
    • Quality, Debug (TCF), Usability, Remote Edit-compile-debug
  3. Sergey Prigogin - Google
    • Refactoring, C++11 features, Codan
  4. Glen Anderson - Analog Devices
    • Debug, Usability, Multicore
  5. Dominique Toupin - Ericsson
  6. Josh Kruck
    • Debug (DSF, MS), Refactoring
  7. Bill Swanson - Tilera
    • Visualization, Multicore, Eclipse/CDT Redistribution
  8. Doug Schaefer - QNX
    • Everything, but currently working on improving Qt support
    • Also if we don't get many more people, we can meeting in one of the evenings as well
  9. Jeff Johnston - RedHat
  10. Jim Adams - Analog Devices
  11. Reibert Arbring - Ericsson
  12. Norman Yee - Analog Devices
  13. Leo Treggiari - Intel
  14. Vladimir Prus - Mentor Graphics
  15. Eric Cloninger - Klocwork
    • Static analysis, refactoring, Android
  16. Mike Wrighton - Mentor Graphics
  17. Greg Watson - IBM
  18. Brian Watt - IBM
  19. Teodor Madan - Freescale
  20. Jesper Eskilson - IAR Systems
    • MBS, TCF, indexer
  21. Patrick Tasse - Ericsson

[edit] Proposed Agenda

  • Eclipse 4.x discussion:
    • reactions to 4.x platform
    • CDT compatibility and/or upgrade plans
    • effect on other projects, Visualizer, etc.
      (e.g. if CDT retains 3.x compatibility, related plugins may need to as well)
  • Java 7
  • Advertising new CDT features
    • Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
    • Other?
  • UI Junit tests: Dependency injection vs other CDT UI test techniques
  • Debug
    • Quick Launches (Local C/C++ App, Remote C/C++ App)
    • Multiprocess launch
  • Remote/synchronized projects
  • ...

[edit] Minutes

  • Introductions
    • 25 attendees from 14 companies
    • 7 CDT Committers present as well as 3 Linux Tools and 2 PTP committers


  • E4
    • What is the gain to start using E4 APIs?
      • Easier to modify the look of the UI -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
      • Uniformity of the look and feel -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
      • QNX feels the UI must be improved -- Does that require E4?
      • Once the CDT community agrees we can use E4 APIs, the decision to do so can be left to individual committers. There does not seem to be a reason we'd have to move all of CDT. We can instead take a joint E4 and 3.x approach.
    • Is there a reason to avoid all use of E4 APIs?
      • We want to keep CDT compiling on 3.x
      • We can re-discuss this requirement for the Luna release


  • Can CDT support platform -1? Meaning the new CDT with the older platform.
    • CDT 8.2 is the first CDT that will allow that. It was not a conscious decision. We don't expect we we will be able, or want to enforce this.


  • Java 7
    • We'll consider moving to Java 7 when the need arises


  • Web integration in Eclipse
    • It is a mess and needs platform involvement. They are well aware of the problems.


  • Advertising new CDT features
    • Welcome page
      • Probably already does all it can. But we have to make sure it points to a the latest wiki N&N or a migration of it.
    • N&N is very important
    • We need to keep the CDT website up to date and describing feature
    • We need auto-discovery of features. For example, people may have upgraded to CDT automatically and therefore will not know to look at the N&N
      • Mylyn has some active pop-up feature for just that purpose. CDT should look into it and copy it.
      • We will need to define policies
    • Can we leverage the splash screen to show the user some feature description when they are just staring at the screen.
      • This is a great idea!
      • Different images can be randomly shown
      • This must be package based (EPP)
      • As for vendors, it will be up to them to re-use this ability or not
    • Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
      • Not a user-friendly solution


  • Redistribution of CDT
    • Maven/Tycho is the way to go


  • CDT Launches
    • too many launch types, should be able to do more single-click launch of apps
      • local start
      • remote start
      • attach local
      • attach remote
    • Ideas proposed
      • quick-launch in run/debug menus
      • add non-project start debug menu item to Debug As... submenu
      • use "clickable" attach/start... nodes under the gdb process node
      • hyperlinks on the "gdb" node ("Start process / Attach process")
      • maybe have tooltip on gdb node, or "Click me" text
      • add "Right click to do X", to suggest looking at context menu
      • quick launch that just starts gdb and when "Select Binary" is selected, the value is populated in the launch, which gets added to quick-launch menu
      • adding one or two predefined launches to CDT
      • add "pencil" edit button to launch line
      • postpone selection of local vs. remote, default is local
      • one launch, wizard to select "essential" high-level options
    • perhaps along with other stuff we just need to clarify the names of the launches:
      • C/C++ Run Local App
      • C/C++ Run Remote App
      • C/C++ Attach Local App
      • C/C++ Attach Remote App
      • Maybe internally these all create a single launch type, but it's good to have the various names for new-user discoverability.


  • Proposal for Multi-Process debugging launch
    • can use launch groups, but inconvenient and would create multiple launches
    • Vladimir from Mentor presented new CodeBench launch type with Web 2.0-style layout
      • Overview tab summarizes debugger and executables
      • links allow drill-down to more specific and advanced option pages
      • "breadcrumb" links allow navigation
      • maybe have multiple views/presentations of same launch properties?
      • maybe a search box to "find" appropriate page
    • Demo and new look for launch was very well received!
    • Two separate issues addressed
      1. Updating the UI
      2. Allowing multiple executables
    • For the UI we should consider using this launch UI for all CDT launches
    • Mentor will continue work on this and will post to open-source
    • For Luna, the new launch UI from Mentor will be proposed to the community as the new CDT launch UI (once it is polished a bit more)


  • Remote/synchronized projects
    • PTP Remote Projects (4.0)
    • PTP Synchronized Projects (5.0)
      • projects local, synchronized with remote, build/launch is remote
      • UNC paths to locate remote include files, etc.
      • separate configurations on both sides, can filter what gets synchronized
      • API built on top of local/remote-tools/RSE platforms

[edit] Decisions

  • E4
    • CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will not use any E4 APIs to keep compatibility with 3.x.
    • CDT will not commit to supporting 3.x as a platform for the CDT 8.2 release.
    • For the future CDT release (Luna), the decision with regards to using E4 APIs is not taken yet. It will be discussed further after the Kepler release.
  • Java
    • CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will run on Java 6
    • No decision to move to Java 7 for the next release at this time.