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= CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013 =
 
= CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013 =
  
We are proposing to scheduled a day at EclipseCon 2013, from Monday March 25th to Thursday March 28th in Boston, MA.
+
A one-day CDT summit was held at EclipseCon 2013 in Boston, MA, on Thursday the 28th of March, 2013.
 
+
To help plan for this meeting, please sign up and specify any preference for the day.  Also, please add any agenda items you'd like to see discussed.
+
 
+
#1 Monday (People will need to miss tutorials)
+
#2 Tuesday (Conflict with a CDT talk at 3pm)
+
#3 Wednesday (Conflict with a CDT talk at 4:15pm, although we could finish before the talk)
+
#4 Thursday
+
#5 Friday (No conflict at all, but would require people to stay an extra day)
+
#6 Sunday before EclipseCon starts (the 24th) (No conflict at all, if people are willing to come to Boston a day early and willing to work on a Sunday)
+
#7 Two-day summit: Sunday and Monday before EclipseCon (24th and 25th).
+
#8 Two-day summit: Friday and Saturday after EclipseCon (29th and 30th).
+
  
 
EclipseCon information is here: [http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/ http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/]
 
EclipseCon information is here: [http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/ http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/]
  
Open to all.
+
Open to all, even if you didn't sign up :).
  
== Attendees and Interests ==
+
Time: 10:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.<br>
 +
Room: Beacon Hill 2 & 3
  
# Marc Khouzam (day preference #5, #4, #1, #6, #7)
+
== Planned Attendees and Interests ==
 +
 
 +
# Marc Khouzam - Ericsson
 
#* Debug, Multicore, Visualizer
 
#* Debug, Multicore, Visualizer
# Pawel Piech (day preference #4, #5, #1)
+
# Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver
# Sergey Prigogin (day preference #4, #5, #6, #1)
+
#* Quality, Debug (TCF), Usability, Remote Edit-compile-debug
 +
# Sergey Prigogin - Google
 
#* Refactoring, C++11 features, Codan
 
#* Refactoring, C++11 features, Codan
# Glen Anderson - Analog Devices (day preference #4, #3, #5)
+
# Glen Anderson - Analog Devices
# Dominique Toupin (day preference #1, #5, #6. #7, #8)
+
#* Debug, Usability, Multicore
# Josh Kruck (day preference #5, #6, #7)
+
# Dominique Toupin - Ericsson
 +
# Josh Kruck
 
#* Debug (DSF, MS), Refactoring
 
#* Debug (DSF, MS), Refactoring
# Bill Swanson (day preference #4, #5, #1)
+
# Bill Swanson - Tilera
 
#* Visualization, Multicore, Eclipse/CDT Redistribution
 
#* Visualization, Multicore, Eclipse/CDT Redistribution
# Doug Schaefer (day preference #4, #5 but really need to leave on Friday at some time)
+
# Doug Schaefer - QNX
 
#* Everything, but currently working on improving Qt support
 
#* Everything, but currently working on improving Qt support
 
#* Also if we don't get many more people, we can meeting in one of the evenings as well
 
#* Also if we don't get many more people, we can meeting in one of the evenings as well
# Jeff Johnston (day preference #4, #5, #3 evening)
+
# Jeff Johnston - RedHat
 +
# Jim Adams - Analog Devices
 +
# Reibert Arbring - Ericsson
 +
# Norman Yee - Analog Devices
 +
# Leo Treggiari - Intel
 +
# Vladimir Prus - Mentor Graphics
 +
# Eric Cloninger - Klocwork
 +
#* Static analysis, refactoring, Android
 +
# Mike Wrighton - Mentor Graphics
 +
# Greg Watson - IBM
 +
# Brian Watt - IBM
 +
# Teodor Madan - Freescale
 +
# Jesper Eskilson - IAR Systems
 +
#* MBS, TCF, indexer
 +
# Patrick Tasse - Ericsson
 +
 
 +
== Proposed Agenda ==
 +
* Eclipse 4.x discussion:
 +
** reactions to 4.x platform
 +
** CDT compatibility and/or upgrade plans
 +
** effect on other projects, Visualizer, etc.<br/>(e.g. if CDT retains 3.x compatibility, related plugins may need to as well)
 +
 
 +
* Java 7
 +
 
 +
* Advertising new CDT features
 +
** Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
 +
** Other?
 +
 
 +
* UI Junit tests: Dependency injection vs other CDT UI test techniques
 +
 
 +
* Debug
 +
** Quick Launches (Local C/C++ App, Remote C/C++ App)
 +
** Multiprocess launch
 +
 
 +
* Remote/synchronized projects
 +
 
 +
* ...
 +
 
 +
== Minutes ==
 +
* Introductions
 +
** 25 attendees from 14 companies
 +
** 7 CDT Committers present as well as 3 Linux Tools and 2 PTP committers
 +
<br>
 +
* E4
 +
** What is the gain to start using E4 APIs?
 +
*** Easier to modify the look of the UI -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
 +
*** Uniformity of the look and feel -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
 +
*** QNX feels the UI must be improved -- Does that require E4?
 +
*** Once the CDT community agrees we can use E4 APIs, the decision to do so can be left to individual committers.  There does not seem to be a reason we'd have to move ''all'' of CDT.  We can instead take a joint E4 and 3.x approach.
 +
** Is there a reason to avoid all use of E4 APIs?
 +
*** We want to keep CDT compiling on 3.x
 +
*** We can re-discuss this requirement for the Luna release
 +
<br>
 +
* Can CDT support platform -1?  Meaning the new CDT with the older platform.
 +
** CDT 8.2 is the first CDT that will allow that.  It was not a conscious decision.  We don't expect we we will be able, or want to enforce this.
 +
<br>
 +
* Java 7
 +
** We'll consider moving to Java 7 when the need arises
 +
<br>
 +
* Web integration in Eclipse
 +
** It is a mess and needs platform involvement.  They are well aware of the problems.
 +
<br>
 +
* Advertising new CDT features
 +
** Welcome page
 +
*** Probably already does all it can.  But we have to make sure it points to a the latest wiki N&N or a migration of it.
 +
** N&N is very important
 +
** We need to keep the CDT website up to date and describing feature
 +
** We need auto-discovery of features.  For example, people may have upgraded to CDT automatically and therefore will not know to look at the N&N
 +
*** Mylyn has some active pop-up feature for just that purpose.  CDT should look into it and copy it.
 +
*** We will need to define policies
 +
** Can we leverage the splash screen to show the user some feature description when they are just staring at the screen.
 +
*** This is a great idea!
 +
*** Different images can be randomly shown
 +
*** This must be package based (EPP)
 +
*** As for vendors, it will be up to them to re-use this ability or not
 +
** Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
 +
*** Not a user-friendly solution
 +
<br>
 +
* Redistribution of CDT
 +
** Maven/Tycho is the way to go
 +
<br>
 +
* CDT Launches
 +
** too many launch types, should be able to do more single-click launch of apps
 +
*** local start
 +
*** remote start
 +
*** attach local
 +
*** attach remote
 +
** Ideas proposed
 +
*** quick-launch in run/debug menus
 +
*** add non-project start debug menu item to Debug As... submenu
 +
*** use "clickable" attach/start... nodes under the gdb process node
 +
*** hyperlinks on the "gdb" node ("Start process / Attach process")
 +
*** maybe have tooltip on gdb node, or "Click me" text
 +
*** add "Right click to do X", to suggest looking at context menu
 +
*** quick launch that just starts gdb and when "Select Binary" is selected, the value is populated in the launch, which gets added to quick-launch menu
 +
*** adding one or two predefined launches to CDT
 +
*** add "pencil" edit button to launch line
 +
*** postpone selection of local vs. remote, default is local
 +
*** one launch, wizard to select "essential" high-level options
 +
** perhaps along with other stuff we just need to clarify the names of the launches:
 +
*** C/C++ Run Local App
 +
*** C/C++ Run Remote App
 +
*** C/C++ Attach Local App
 +
*** C/C++ Attach Remote App
 +
*** Maybe internally these all create a single launch type, but it's good to have the various names for new-user discoverability.
 +
<br>
 +
* Proposal for Multi-Process debugging launch
 +
** can use launch groups, but inconvenient and would create multiple launches
 +
** Vladimir from Mentor presented new CodeBench launch type with Web 2.0-style layout
 +
*** Overview tab summarizes debugger and executables
 +
*** links allow drill-down to more specific and advanced option pages
 +
*** "breadcrumb" links allow navigation
 +
*** maybe have multiple views/presentations of same launch properties?
 +
*** maybe a search box to "find" appropriate page
 +
** Demo and new look for launch was very well received!
 +
** Two separate issues addressed
 +
**# Updating the UI
 +
**# Allowing multiple executables
 +
** For the UI we should consider using this launch UI for all CDT launches
 +
** Mentor will continue work on this and will post to open-source
 +
** For Luna, the new launch UI from Mentor will be proposed to the community as the new CDT launch UI (once it is polished a bit more)
 +
<br>
 +
* Remote/synchronized projects
 +
** PTP Remote Projects (4.0)
 +
** PTP Synchronized Projects (5.0)
 +
*** projects local, synchronized with remote, build/launch is remote
 +
*** UNC paths to locate remote include files, etc.
 +
*** separate configurations on both sides, can filter what gets synchronized
 +
*** API built on top of local/remote-tools/RSE platforms
 +
 
 +
=== Decisions ===
 +
* E4
 +
** CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will not use any E4 APIs to keep compatibility with 3.x.
 +
** CDT will not commit to supporting 3.x as a platform for the CDT 8.2 release.
 +
** For the future CDT release (Luna), the decision with regards to using E4 APIs is not taken yet.  It will be discussed further after the Kepler release.
 +
* Java
 +
** CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will run on Java 6
 +
** No decision to move to Java 7 for the next release at this time.

Latest revision as of 14:13, 2 April 2013

Contents

[edit] CDT Summit at EclipseCon 2013

A one-day CDT summit was held at EclipseCon 2013 in Boston, MA, on Thursday the 28th of March, 2013.

EclipseCon information is here: http://www.eclipsecon.org/2013/

Open to all, even if you didn't sign up :).

Time: 10:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.
Room: Beacon Hill 2 & 3

[edit] Planned Attendees and Interests

  1. Marc Khouzam - Ericsson
    • Debug, Multicore, Visualizer
  2. Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver
    • Quality, Debug (TCF), Usability, Remote Edit-compile-debug
  3. Sergey Prigogin - Google
    • Refactoring, C++11 features, Codan
  4. Glen Anderson - Analog Devices
    • Debug, Usability, Multicore
  5. Dominique Toupin - Ericsson
  6. Josh Kruck
    • Debug (DSF, MS), Refactoring
  7. Bill Swanson - Tilera
    • Visualization, Multicore, Eclipse/CDT Redistribution
  8. Doug Schaefer - QNX
    • Everything, but currently working on improving Qt support
    • Also if we don't get many more people, we can meeting in one of the evenings as well
  9. Jeff Johnston - RedHat
  10. Jim Adams - Analog Devices
  11. Reibert Arbring - Ericsson
  12. Norman Yee - Analog Devices
  13. Leo Treggiari - Intel
  14. Vladimir Prus - Mentor Graphics
  15. Eric Cloninger - Klocwork
    • Static analysis, refactoring, Android
  16. Mike Wrighton - Mentor Graphics
  17. Greg Watson - IBM
  18. Brian Watt - IBM
  19. Teodor Madan - Freescale
  20. Jesper Eskilson - IAR Systems
    • MBS, TCF, indexer
  21. Patrick Tasse - Ericsson

[edit] Proposed Agenda

  • Eclipse 4.x discussion:
    • reactions to 4.x platform
    • CDT compatibility and/or upgrade plans
    • effect on other projects, Visualizer, etc.
      (e.g. if CDT retains 3.x compatibility, related plugins may need to as well)
  • Java 7
  • Advertising new CDT features
    • Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
    • Other?
  • UI Junit tests: Dependency injection vs other CDT UI test techniques
  • Debug
    • Quick Launches (Local C/C++ App, Remote C/C++ App)
    • Multiprocess launch
  • Remote/synchronized projects
  • ...

[edit] Minutes

  • Introductions
    • 25 attendees from 14 companies
    • 7 CDT Committers present as well as 3 Linux Tools and 2 PTP committers


  • E4
    • What is the gain to start using E4 APIs?
      • Easier to modify the look of the UI -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
      • Uniformity of the look and feel -- No need to move CDT to E4 for that
      • QNX feels the UI must be improved -- Does that require E4?
      • Once the CDT community agrees we can use E4 APIs, the decision to do so can be left to individual committers. There does not seem to be a reason we'd have to move all of CDT. We can instead take a joint E4 and 3.x approach.
    • Is there a reason to avoid all use of E4 APIs?
      • We want to keep CDT compiling on 3.x
      • We can re-discuss this requirement for the Luna release


  • Can CDT support platform -1? Meaning the new CDT with the older platform.
    • CDT 8.2 is the first CDT that will allow that. It was not a conscious decision. We don't expect we we will be able, or want to enforce this.


  • Java 7
    • We'll consider moving to Java 7 when the need arises


  • Web integration in Eclipse
    • It is a mess and needs platform involvement. They are well aware of the problems.


  • Advertising new CDT features
    • Welcome page
      • Probably already does all it can. But we have to make sure it points to a the latest wiki N&N or a migration of it.
    • N&N is very important
    • We need to keep the CDT website up to date and describing feature
    • We need auto-discovery of features. For example, people may have upgraded to CDT automatically and therefore will not know to look at the N&N
      • Mylyn has some active pop-up feature for just that purpose. CDT should look into it and copy it.
      • We will need to define policies
    • Can we leverage the splash screen to show the user some feature description when they are just staring at the screen.
      • This is a great idea!
      • Different images can be randomly shown
      • This must be package based (EPP)
      • As for vendors, it will be up to them to re-use this ability or not
    • Dialog popup with "Did you know?" and "Don't show this message again"
      • Not a user-friendly solution


  • Redistribution of CDT
    • Maven/Tycho is the way to go


  • CDT Launches
    • too many launch types, should be able to do more single-click launch of apps
      • local start
      • remote start
      • attach local
      • attach remote
    • Ideas proposed
      • quick-launch in run/debug menus
      • add non-project start debug menu item to Debug As... submenu
      • use "clickable" attach/start... nodes under the gdb process node
      • hyperlinks on the "gdb" node ("Start process / Attach process")
      • maybe have tooltip on gdb node, or "Click me" text
      • add "Right click to do X", to suggest looking at context menu
      • quick launch that just starts gdb and when "Select Binary" is selected, the value is populated in the launch, which gets added to quick-launch menu
      • adding one or two predefined launches to CDT
      • add "pencil" edit button to launch line
      • postpone selection of local vs. remote, default is local
      • one launch, wizard to select "essential" high-level options
    • perhaps along with other stuff we just need to clarify the names of the launches:
      • C/C++ Run Local App
      • C/C++ Run Remote App
      • C/C++ Attach Local App
      • C/C++ Attach Remote App
      • Maybe internally these all create a single launch type, but it's good to have the various names for new-user discoverability.


  • Proposal for Multi-Process debugging launch
    • can use launch groups, but inconvenient and would create multiple launches
    • Vladimir from Mentor presented new CodeBench launch type with Web 2.0-style layout
      • Overview tab summarizes debugger and executables
      • links allow drill-down to more specific and advanced option pages
      • "breadcrumb" links allow navigation
      • maybe have multiple views/presentations of same launch properties?
      • maybe a search box to "find" appropriate page
    • Demo and new look for launch was very well received!
    • Two separate issues addressed
      1. Updating the UI
      2. Allowing multiple executables
    • For the UI we should consider using this launch UI for all CDT launches
    • Mentor will continue work on this and will post to open-source
    • For Luna, the new launch UI from Mentor will be proposed to the community as the new CDT launch UI (once it is polished a bit more)


  • Remote/synchronized projects
    • PTP Remote Projects (4.0)
    • PTP Synchronized Projects (5.0)
      • projects local, synchronized with remote, build/launch is remote
      • UNC paths to locate remote include files, etc.
      • separate configurations on both sides, can filter what gets synchronized
      • API built on top of local/remote-tools/RSE platforms

[edit] Decisions

  • E4
    • CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will not use any E4 APIs to keep compatibility with 3.x.
    • CDT will not commit to supporting 3.x as a platform for the CDT 8.2 release.
    • For the future CDT release (Luna), the decision with regards to using E4 APIs is not taken yet. It will be discussed further after the Kepler release.
  • Java
    • CDT 8.2 (Kepler) will run on Java 6
    • No decision to move to Java 7 for the next release at this time.