Architecture Council/Minutes September 11 2008
|Meeting Title:||Architecture Council Monthly Meeting|
|Date & Time:|| Thursday September 11, 2008 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin|
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|Dial-in:|| (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or|
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
- 1 Attendees
- 2 Agenda / Notes
- 3 Deferred
- Sign up here (alphabetical by last name), since it's hard to catch all names during the call.
- Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Philippe Mulet, Martin Oberhuber, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, August Schmidt, Darin Swanson, Thomas Watson, Darin Wright
- Tentative: John Duimovich, David Williams (will join late, if my conflict ends early)
- Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing meeting), Bjorn Freeman-Benson (vacation), John Graham(last minute client mtg), Richard Gronback (travelling), Mik Kersten (travelling), Markus Knauer (g-Eclipse tutorial), Andrew Overholt (meeting conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (city council meeting), John Wiegand (travelling)
- Unknown: Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Timothy deBoer, Doug Gaff, Thomas Hallgren, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Jochen Krause, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Mark Vandenbrink, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes August 14 2008#Action Items
- Boris to start Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations
- Martin to draft an E-Mail to eclipse.org-committers for review, inviting to put EAC on CC of bugs
- Martin to send E-Mail to EAC list as a reminder for "Architectural Walkthrough".
- Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn. One more to follow before publicly announcing?
- MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
- Bjorn or Anne to add a "year of appointment" to members on the councils page
- Martin to propose alternate meeting scheme on the mailing list
- Everyone to think about time commitments that can be made for "architectural things" at Eclipse (3 hours == 1 hr meeting + 2 hrs E-Mail and mentoring)
- Everyone to propose new members on the mailing list
- Martin to create bugzilla bugs for the ISchedulingRule (bug 246840 and LGPL bug 246945 discussions
- Meeting Dates - 2nd thurs accepted by everyone
- EAC and bugzilla, and the E-Mail to Committers
- Accepted by everyone. There's not so much traffic yet, keep mailing list on for now.
- Who wants to be a secret-keeper of the EAC user's bugzilla password? MichaelS
- Architecture Council/Members and Mentors - is it accurate?
- Who's mentoring Apogee, COSMOS, Aperi?
- Wayne: There are several mentor-less projects; in the past, projects have picked a mentor themselves - kick them to pick a mentor
- AI Wayne list mentor-less Technology projects; AI Other PMC's list mentor-less projects from their domain
- AI Everyone link to their Bio or Blog from the person name on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
- Who's mentoring Apogee, COSMOS, Aperi?
- Dormant Status Proposal:
- Accepted by everyone. Mike needs to sign off changes in membership.
- Martin will try to keep track of activity, but can't promise.
- New Member Proposals:
- Are we too big a crowd already? New Member Proposals?
- Some ideas (from E4 mostly): Dave Carver, Tom Schindl, Scott Lewis, Konstantin Kommissarchik, Kevin McGuire, David Orme, Paul Webster, Paul Coltron
- Michael: Too big a crowd for round tables, but big crowd makes sense for "breakout style" meetings
- Google Calendar Bugs and Requests -- does anybody know how to report them?
- Changing an event, "Dont send" does send notifications
- Response from to mailing list invitation should track attendance of each member separately
- Ed: It's good, people need reminders
- Jeff: Meeting invite should have the call-in details in there, AI Martin add
- Wayne: Welcome Gunnar Wagenknecht as Technology PMC representative to the Architecture Council
News from the Board (EMO)
- We have board reps and EMO reps on the council (Mike, Bjorn, Jeff, Ed, zx, Mik and Doug Gaff; Wayne)
- Would like to have a standing "news from the board" topic, since as mentors we should be top informed
- Other channels (PlanetEclipse, Blog, Committers / Project-leads mailing list, ...) should work but 1st-hand is better
- Do information channels work well?
- Ed: told Mike that the information channels are not good enough yet
- Wayne: Bjorn has been blogging heavily about changes in Dev process
- Boris: Particularly when new rules are coming into effect, there needs to be an ML announcement
- Jeff: Dev process change was in mid of vacation season
- Jeff: Some discussions at the Board are confidential, but will take opportunity of this slot in the future
- Ed: The IP issue is a good example for sharing discussions with the EAC (IP advisory committee)
- Jeff: What's people's viewpoint on dual licensing? Where is the EPL not sufficient?
- TomW: In Equinox Framework, would like to adopt more Apache
- Martin: Dual-license is largely redundant (weaker license covers all)
- Jeff: Being able to say that "Everything from Eclipse.org is EPL" is helpful
- If somebody thinks that EPL is not sufficient for any reason, Jeff would like to know about it (and, make a CQ to Janet)
Top Ten Recommendations
- Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations
- More recommendations?
- Add links into some code which exposes a recommendation as example?
- Could easily convert a Recommendation into an article / blog post / ... ("The EAC Series")
- MichaelS: "Pattern" idea. Example: EMF -- there is "good" usage and "bad" usage, how to share such patterns?
- Example: Dealing with commands, dealing with Concurrency, dealing with Preferences, separation of UI / Non-UI
- Pattern is also: Advantages / Disadvantages / When to apply
- Boris: agree that it's good to flesh out these things, but not sure if Patterns is a good Next Step
- One next step could be for AC members to blog about something
- Martin: Just put together existing links to blogs / articles? AI Martin create Pattern page, AI Everyone link into pattern page
- AI Michael flesh out the idea and remind of the Pattern idea
- Boris: Started a Wiki page called Ninja for advanced debugging tips
Deadlocks, Jobs and Scheduling
- Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
- What is causing issues?
- work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
- work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
- General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
- Jeff: Split off e.g. top ten concurrency best practices
- Boris: Fine with collecting more for now and then work on forking off
- Martin: Concurrency should be an item for E4. How is EAC related to E4?
- Michael: Ask the E4 team to present architectural ideas to the AC
- Ed: There are E4 calls, this would create duplication
- DougS: There is no "E4 Architecture" per se, it's separate initiatives
LGPL Works-with vs. Requires
- Top Ten Concurrency Best Practices?
- Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
- Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
- Better Javadoc ?
- Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
- Articles ? - John referenced the resouce-deltas article
How to start Releng?
- Question from a new project: I am trying to create some update sites and build scripts for TmL and I am having some difficults to find some reference material to working with this. Do you have any idea where I can find a starter material to do that??
- Bjorn, NickB & Denis Build Workshop 3: Build Hard With A Purpose but is that an answer for now? Current status?
- Refer people to clone existing projects' releng? Which ones are good?
- Refer to the PDE Build docs? But that's only half of the story?
Other Ideas for Discussion
- Mentoring New Projects
- Experiences? What could be improved?
- Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
- Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
- Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
- Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
- Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ). Do we want this for Galileo?
- E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
- Eclipse Pain Points
- Performance & Memory Footprint, Bloat
- Restrictions on Resource model (Maven)
- IP due diligence and the processes around it
- Lots of these issues are already worked on by E4, and/or Committer Representatives at the Board, and/or the Planning Council
- But the EAC's charter includes identifying and naming pain pionts... anything not yet being addressed?