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Architecture Council/Minutes September 11 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday September 11, 2008 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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  • Sign up here (alphabetical by last name), since it's hard to catch all names during the call.
  • Signed-up: John Arthorne, Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Philippe Mulet, Martin Oberhuber, Michael Scharf, August Schmidt, Darin Swanson, Thomas Watson, Darin Wright
  • Tentative: John Duimovich, David Williams (will join late, if my conflict ends early)
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing meeting), John Graham(last minute client mtg), Richard Gronback (travelling), Mik Kersten (travelling), Markus Knauer (g-Eclipse tutorial), Andrew Overholt (meeting conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (city council meeting), John Wiegand (travelling)

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

  • Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes August 14 2008#Action Items
  • Ok green.gif Boris to start Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations
  • Ok green.gif Martin to draft an E-Mail to for review, inviting to put EAC on CC of bugs
  • Ok green.gif Martin to send E-Mail to EAC list as a reminder for "Architectural Walkthrough".
    • Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn. One more to follow before publicly announcing?
  • MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • Ok green.gif Bjorn or Anne to add a "year of appointment" to members on the councils page
  • Ok green.gif Martin to propose alternate meeting scheme on the mailing list
  • Everyone to think about time commitments that can be made for "architectural things" at Eclipse (3 hours == 1 hr meeting + 2 hrs E-Mail and mentoring)
  • Everyone to propose new members on the mailing list
  • Ok green.gif Martin to create bugzilla bugs for the ISchedulingRule (bug 246840 and LGPL {bug|246945}} discussions


  • Meeting Dates - any additional comments? The vote was to keep 2nd thursday of each month (and I propose moving to tuesday as first choice in case there is a public holiday or other conflict on thursday).
  • EAC and bugzilla, and the E-Mail to Committers
    • Spamming the list already?
    • Virtual inbox ( or direct mailing list address as bugzilla user?
    • Who wants to be a secret-keeper of the EAC user's bugzilla password?
  • Architecture Council/Members and Mentors - is it accurate?
    • What projects should have a mentor? (Every / Incubation / Those who ask / ...?)
    • Who's mentoring Apogee?
    • What to do with the COSMOS and Aperi projects, which seem mentorless after Harm Sluiman quit
    • Can we (auto)generate a list of mentor-less projects?
    • Other wishes for re-assigning mentorship?
    • Should the list express some "area of expertise" with mentors like "technical/coder" vs. "management" ?
  • Dormant Status Proposal:
    • Do the 3 month / 1 year times make sense?
    • Mike needs to sign off changes in membership
  • New Member Proposals:
    • Are we too big a crowd already? New Member Proposals?
    • Some ideas (from E4 mostly): Dave Carver, Tom Schindl, Scott Lewis, Konstantin Kommissarchik, Kevin McGuire, David Orme, Paul Webster, Paul Coltron
  • Google Calendar Bugs and Requests -- does anybody know how to report them?
    • Changing an event, "Dont send" does send notifications
    • Response from to mailing list invitation should track attendance of each member separately
  • Welcome Gunnar Wagenknecht as Technology PMC representative to the Architecture Council

News from the Board (EMO)

  • We have board reps and EMO reps on the council (Mike, Bjorn, Jeff, Ed, zx, Mik and Doug Gaff; Wayne)
  • Would like to have a standing "news from the board" topic, since as mentors we should be top informed
  • Other channels (PlanetEclipse, Blog, Committers / Project-leads mailing list, ...) should work but 1st-hand is better
  • Do information channels work well?

Top Ten Recommendations

  • Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations
  • More recommendations?
  • Add links into some code which exposes a recommendation as example?
  • Could easily convert a Recommendation into an article / blog post / ... ("The EAC Series")

Deadlocks, Jobs and Scheduling

  • Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
  • What is causing issues?
    • work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context
    • work performed in callbacks - unknown context
    • Job / SchedulingRule intermixed with Resources - cannot extend rules after the fact, need to know who locks what internally
  • What can we do to make the Platform safer for Concurrency?
    • Come up with some items in our Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
    • Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
    • Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
      • David Orme mentions DataBinding Realms and the Threads Considered Harmful blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
      • Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
      • Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
    • Better Javadoc ?
      • Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
    • Articles ? - John referenced the resouce-deltas article

LGPL Works-with vs. Requires

bug 246945

How to start Releng?

  • Question from a new project: I am trying to create some update sites and build scripts for TmL and I am having some difficults to find some reference material to working with this. Do you have any idea where I can find a starter material to do that??
    • Bjorn, NickB & Denis Build Workshop 3: Build Hard With A Purpose but is that an answer for now? Current status?
    • Refer people to clone existing projects' releng? Which ones are good?
    • Refer to the PDE Build docs? But that's only half of the story?

Other Ideas for Discussion

  • Mentoring New Projects
    • Experiences? What could be improved?
    • Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
  • Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
    • Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
    • Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
    • Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: ). Do we want this for Galileo?
  • E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
  • Eclipse Pain Points

Action Items

Next Meeting

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