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Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday October 9, 2008 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
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  • Sign up here (alphabetical by last name), since it's hard to catch all names during the call.
  • Signed-up: Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Richard Gronback, Mike Milinkovich, Martin Oberhuber, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Mike Wilson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
  • Tentative: Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, John Wiegand,
  • Regrets: John Arthorne, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, Doug Gaff, Jochen Krause
  • Unknown:
    • Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Naci Dai, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, John Graham, Thomas Hallgren, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Andrew Overholt, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, August Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink, Thomas Watson, David Williams

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items


  • New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), David Carver (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep)
  • Potential new member: Has anybody worked with David Orme so far?
  • Want to change meeting invitations to personal ones via Google Calendar instead of the Mailing List - will hopefully also help to track meeting attendance
    • Anybody have a problem with their E-mail stored at Google?
    • Want minimum effort for everyone to track attendance... Web Poll won't work, E-Mail is so-so
  • Dormant proposal fleshed out:
    • Being dormant means not being waited for in case of elections, and not being invited to meetings

How the AC Works

  • Been disappointed by lack of participation in recent initiatives (action items).
  • With such a large group, just sitting at the phone meeting is not what counts. The monthly phone meeting is mostly a reminder for action items, inspiration for new things through live discussion, aggregation of information, and a fast resolve issues of disagreement.
    • All other work needs to be offline. Use this as an encouragement for people to still participate even if they can't join the phone call.
    • What really counts is involvement in E-Mail / Bugzilla discussions, engagement in the action items, and pro-active finding, articulating and tracking potential improvements to Eclipse as a Whole.

News from the EMO & Councils

  • (was: News from the Board)
  • How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
    • Who does still not know about the requirement to track 3rd party lib dependencies by a CQ? (Last one in The IP Process in 8 cartoons)?
    • Options: Watch the Wiki, read Bjorn's blog, read the dev process RSS feed,,, other?
  • RC - Roadmap Process: RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities
    • Does the RC even exist at this point?
    • Are we going to feed back the themes from the proejct plans into the T&P, or try to find some mapping?
    • What is Bjorn's Roadmap Generation Tool going to do?
  • Wayne: mailing list, current speaking opportunities
  • PC - Richard Gronback: New Galileo Requirements from the Planning Council?
  • StAC - Don Smith: Outcome of the StAC meeting at Eclipse World?

Recent EAC bugs

  • Request for a mentor for COSMOS
  • How to facilitate discussions among committers?
    • Proposal: Create a new mailing list for official announcements. Allow discussions on current committers list.
  • bug 249959 Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
  • bug 249745 Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse)
  • bug 246840 Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC?
  • bug 246945 Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)

How to start Releng?

Top Ten Recommendations

Relationship to E4


  • Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
  • What is causing issues?
    • work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
    • work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
    • General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
    • Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
    • Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
      • David Orme mentions DataBinding Realms and the Threads Considered Harmful blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
      • Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
      • Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
    • Better Javadoc ?
      • Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
    • Articles ? - John referenced the resouce-deltas article

Other Ideas for Discussion

  • Mentoring New Projects
    • Experiences? What could be improved?
    • Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
  • Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
    • Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
    • Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
    • Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: ). Do we want this for Galileo?
  • E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
  • Eclipse Pain Points

Action Items

Next Meeting

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