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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008"
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== Attendees == | == Attendees == | ||
* Sign up here (''alphabetical by last name''), since it's hard to catch all names during the call. | * Sign up here (''alphabetical by last name''), since it's hard to catch all names during the call. | ||
| − | * Signed-up: | + | * '''Signed-up:''' Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Richard Gronback, Mike Milinkovich, Martin Oberhuber, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Mike Wilson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue |
| − | + | * '''Tentative:''' Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, John Wiegand, | |
| − | + | * '''Regrets:''' John Arthorne, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, Doug Gaff, Jochen Krause | |
| − | + | * '''Unknown:''' | |
| − | + | ** Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Naci Dai, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, John Graham, Thomas Hallgren, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Andrew Overholt, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, August Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink, Thomas Watson, David Williams | |
| − | * | + | |
| − | * | + | |
| − | ** | + | |
== Agenda / Notes == | == Agenda / Notes == | ||
| Line 38: | Line 35: | ||
=== Administrative === | === Administrative === | ||
| − | * New Members | + | * New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), David Carver (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep) |
| + | * Potential new member: Has anybody worked with David Orme so far? | ||
| + | * Want to change meeting invitations to personal ones via Google Calendar instead of the Mailing List - will hopefully also help to track meeting attendance | ||
| + | ** Anybody have a problem with their E-mail stored at Google? | ||
| + | ** Want minimum effort for everyone to track attendance... Web Poll won't work, E-Mail is so-so | ||
| + | * [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00588.html Dormant proposal] fleshed out: | ||
| + | ** Being dormant means not being waited for in case of elections, and not being invited to meetings | ||
| − | === News from the | + | ==== How the AC Works ==== |
| + | * Been disappointed by lack of participation in recent initiatives (action items). | ||
| + | * With such a large group, just sitting at the phone meeting is not what counts. The monthly phone meeting is mostly a '''reminder''' for action items, '''inspiration''' for new things through live discussion, '''aggregation''' of information, and a '''fast resolve''' issues of disagreement. | ||
| + | ** All other work needs to be offline. Use this as an '''encouragement''' for people to still participate even if they can't join the phone call. | ||
| + | ** What really counts is '''involvement''' in E-Mail / Bugzilla discussions, '''engagement''' in the action items, and '''pro-active finding, articulating and tracking''' potential improvements to Eclipse as a Whole. | ||
| + | |||
| + | === News from the EMO & Councils === | ||
| + | * (was: News from the Board) | ||
| + | * How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers? | ||
| + | ** Who does still not know about the requirement to track 3rd party lib dependencies by a CQ? (Last one in [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/ip-process-in-cartoons.php The IP Process in 8 cartoons])? | ||
| + | ** Options: Watch the Wiki, read Bjorn's blog, read the dev process RSS feed, eclipse.org-committers-announce, eclipse.org-project-leads, other? | ||
| + | * '''RC - Roadmap Process''': [[RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities]] | ||
| + | ** Does the RC even exist at this point? | ||
| + | ** Are we going to feed back the themes from the proejct plans into the T&P, or try to find some mapping? | ||
| + | ** What is Bjorn's Roadmap Generation Tool going to do? | ||
| + | * Wayne: '''eclipse.org-evangelists''' mailing list, current speaking opportunities | ||
| + | ** [[Community Development for Eclipse Projects]] page | ||
| + | * '''PC''' - Richard Gronback: '''New Galileo Requirements''' from the Planning Council? | ||
| + | * '''StAC''' - Don Smith: Outcome of the '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World'''? | ||
=== Recent EAC bugs === | === Recent EAC bugs === | ||
| + | * Request for a mentor for COSMOS | ||
| + | * How to facilitate discussions among committers? | ||
| + | ** Proposal: Create a new '''eclipse.org-committers-announce''' mailing list for official announcements. Allow discussions on current committers list. | ||
| + | * {{bug|249959}} Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts | ||
| + | * {{bug|249745}} Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse) | ||
| + | * {{bug|246840}} Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC? | ||
| + | * {{bug|246945}} Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL) | ||
=== How to start Releng? === | === How to start Releng? === | ||
| Line 50: | Line 78: | ||
=== Top Ten Recommendations === | === Top Ten Recommendations === | ||
| − | * [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations]] | + | * [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations]] - should we start sorting them? |
| − | * [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] | + | * [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] - want more, more, more! |
=== Relationship to [[E4]] === | === Relationship to [[E4]] === | ||
| + | * [[E4/Pervasive Themes]] - Performance, Memory Footprint, [http://borisoneclipse.blogspot.com/2008/10/avoiding-bloat.html Bloat (Boris' Blog)], Concurrency | ||
* Invite E4 to present to the EAC? | * Invite E4 to present to the EAC? | ||
Revision as of 10:13, 9 October 2008
| Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
| Date & Time: | Thursday October 9, 2008 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin HTML |  iCal
|
| Dial-in: | (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or 866.362.7064 (toll-free North America) passcode 464440# |
Attendees
- Sign up here (alphabetical by last name), since it's hard to catch all names during the call.
- Signed-up: Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Richard Gronback, Mike Milinkovich, Martin Oberhuber, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Mike Wilson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
- Tentative: Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, John Wiegand,
- Regrets: John Arthorne, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, Doug Gaff, Jochen Krause
- Unknown:
- Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Naci Dai, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, John Graham, Thomas Hallgren, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Andrew Overholt, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, August Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink, Thomas Watson, David Williams
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes September 11 2008#Action Items
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn. One more to follow before publicly announcing?
- (old) MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
-
Martin to send out E-Mail about the EAC Bug component - Wayne to list mentor-less technology projects on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
- All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
- Everyone to hyperlink to their Bio on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
- Martin to add call-in details to Google Calendar Reminders
- Everyone to edit the Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations page
- Everyone to hyperlink on the new Architecture Council/Links Collection to interesting architecture-related blogs, articles or other resources
- Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
Administrative
- New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), David Carver (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep)
- Potential new member: Has anybody worked with David Orme so far?
- Want to change meeting invitations to personal ones via Google Calendar instead of the Mailing List - will hopefully also help to track meeting attendance
- Anybody have a problem with their E-mail stored at Google?
- Want minimum effort for everyone to track attendance... Web Poll won't work, E-Mail is so-so
- Dormant proposal fleshed out:
- Being dormant means not being waited for in case of elections, and not being invited to meetings
How the AC Works
- Been disappointed by lack of participation in recent initiatives (action items).
- With such a large group, just sitting at the phone meeting is not what counts. The monthly phone meeting is mostly a reminder for action items, inspiration for new things through live discussion, aggregation of information, and a fast resolve issues of disagreement.
- All other work needs to be offline. Use this as an encouragement for people to still participate even if they can't join the phone call.
- What really counts is involvement in E-Mail / Bugzilla discussions, engagement in the action items, and pro-active finding, articulating and tracking potential improvements to Eclipse as a Whole.
News from the EMO & Councils
- (was: News from the Board)
- How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
- Who does still not know about the requirement to track 3rd party lib dependencies by a CQ? (Last one in The IP Process in 8 cartoons)?
- Options: Watch the Wiki, read Bjorn's blog, read the dev process RSS feed, eclipse.org-committers-announce, eclipse.org-project-leads, other?
- RC - Roadmap Process: RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities
- Does the RC even exist at this point?
- Are we going to feed back the themes from the proejct plans into the T&P, or try to find some mapping?
- What is Bjorn's Roadmap Generation Tool going to do?
- Wayne: eclipse.org-evangelists mailing list, current speaking opportunities
- PC - Richard Gronback: New Galileo Requirements from the Planning Council?
- StAC - Don Smith: Outcome of the StAC meeting at Eclipse World?
Recent EAC bugs
- Request for a mentor for COSMOS
- How to facilitate discussions among committers?
- Proposal: Create a new eclipse.org-committers-announce mailing list for official announcements. Allow discussions on current committers list.
- bug 249959 Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
- bug 249745 Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse)
- bug 246840 Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC?
- bug 246945 Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)
How to start Releng?
- How to start a releng project for unattended builds on the ML - PDE build docs are good but only half the story
- Bjorn, NickB & Denis Build Workshop 3: Build Hard With A Purpose but is that an answer for now? Current status?
- Refer people to clone existing projects' releng? Which ones are good?
Top Ten Recommendations
- Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations - should we start sorting them?
- Architecture Council/Links Collection - want more, more, more!
Relationship to E4
- E4/Pervasive Themes - Performance, Memory Footprint, Bloat (Boris' Blog), Concurrency
- Invite E4 to present to the EAC?
Concurrency
- Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
- What is causing issues?
- work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
- work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
- General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
- Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
- Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
- David Orme mentions DataBinding Realms and the Threads Considered Harmful blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
- Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
- Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
- Better Javadoc ?
- Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
- Articles ? - John referenced the resouce-deltas article
Other Ideas for Discussion
- Mentoring New Projects
- Experiences? What could be improved?
- Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
- Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
- Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
- Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
- Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ). Do we want this for Galileo?
- E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
- Eclipse Pain Points
- Performance & Memory Footprint, Bloat
- Restrictions on Resource model (Maven)
- IP due diligence and the processes around it
- Lots of these issues are already worked on by E4, and/or Committer Representatives at the Board, and/or the Planning Council
- But the EAC's charter includes identifying and naming pain pionts... anything not yet being addressed?
- Re-activate Top Ten Architectural Problems in all of Eclipse ?
- Re-activate Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity ?