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Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday November 13, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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  • See the Attendance Tracking Poll for this meeting, and this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Eugene Chan, Neil Hauge, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, Michael Scharf
  • Regrets: David Carver, Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

  • Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008#Action Items
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn. One more to follow before publicly announcing?
  • (old) MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
  • (old) Everyone to hyperlink to their Bio on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
  • (old) Everyone to hyperlink on the new Architecture Council/Links Collection to interesting architecture-related blogs, articles or other resources
  • (old) All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
  • Wayne to file bug for portal to add fields for project mentors
  • Ok green.gif Ed, Gunnar, Karsten to E-Mail their affiliation to Anne Jacko <emo@eclipse.org>
  • Ok green.gif Georg bug 250348 questions / things unclear for him as a new AC member
  • Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
  • Ok green.gif Martin to contact David Orme - he wants to think about it
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250320 ask webmaster to create eclipse.org-committers-announce mailing list
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250315 asking for better attendance tracking at AC meetings
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250317 for discussing ways of spreading EMO information


  • New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
    • Ed Merks working for itemis? - Bylaws say no Strategic member rep in that case
  • Linda Chan proposal
    • Our existing Charter Architecture Council#How Do I Become A Member of the Architecture Council? requires: "simple majority of +1's"... that's hard to achieve, even not counting dormant members! And we didn't quite observe it for Tom and Dave recently. Bjorn?
    • Linda is BIRT committer -- rather than appointing her personally, the DTP or BIRT PMC could nominate her as representative
  • Tracking Meeting Attendance - Doodle
  • 4 members became dormant - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
    • Dormant status mostly to reflect responsiveness to voting. Richard Gronback for instance been very responsive but not involved in discussions.
    • Martin in favor of sending a Dormant Announcement E-Mail if in doubt, even if "some" activity was there, as a reminder for the member... don't want to be overly picky though
  • Projects in need of Mentors
    • bug Faceted Project Framework (FPF) - thanks Neil Hauge and Oisin Hurley
    • bug 254906 FireFly DevKit - thanks Doug Gaff and Gunnar Wagenknecht
    • Others, see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors: ACTF, Aperi, ALF, Apogee, COSMOS, PDT -- AI File a Bug (best have the project file one), use this link for filing the bug
    • How do projects find/attract a mentor? Filing bug is good for us, but I'm told it's inconvenient for projects... do we just need to document it better? Or allow them to contact AC members privately... bug 251747 private discussions?
  • Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
    • PMC's and AC are expected to know the FAQ's better, we can answer questions by pointing at the FAQ's
    • We need a good backup channel to the EMO for IP/Legal questions we cannot answer. MikeM: going to create a "closed group" on IPZilla for asking Mike's opinion.
  • Architecture Council/F2F ESE 2008
    • Everybody signed up who can be there?
    • Martin would like some actual work discussions, not just informal gathering, we've got enough bugs to discuss.. agenda?

News from the EMO & Councils

  • Don: StAC meeting at Eclipse World -- outcome?
  • Updated Website Terms of Use
  • Wayne: Community Development for Eclipse Projects page
    • bug 252015 Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
  • EMO: bug 250317 How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
  • RC - Roadmap Process: RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities - are we happy with it?
  • PC - Richard Gronback: New Galileo Requirements from the Planning Council?
    • Must do: Use only Published API by M6
    • Must do: Provide basic Capability / Activity Definitions by M6
    • Must do: Use Babel by M6


  • bug 167144 "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
    • Nexus Project Proposal vs. Faceted Project proposal.
    • What can we do to foster fine granular re-use of functionality?
    • Much of it seems a timing (release train) issue, as well as communication. It's easy for established mature technology but hard for incubating one.

Recent EAC bugs on Process and other topics

How to start Releng?

Top Ten Recommendations

Relationship to E4


  • Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
  • What is causing issues?
    • work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
    • work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
    • General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
    • Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
    • Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
      • David Orme mentions DataBinding Realms and the Threads Considered Harmful blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
      • Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
      • Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
    • Better Javadoc ?
      • Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
    • Articles ? - John referenced the resource-deltas article

Mentoring New Projects

  • We need more Architecture Council members to step up and become project mentors
    • New projects require two mentors (a Good Thing™)
  • How do new projects find/attract a mentor?
    • Mailing list, bugzilla?
    • "Work the crowd"
  • Experiences?
    • What could be improved?
    • Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?

Other Ideas for Discussion

  • Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
    • Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
    • Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
    • Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ). Do we want this for Galileo?
  • E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
  • Eclipse Pain Points

Action Items

Next Meeting