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== Attendees ==
 
== Attendees ==
 
* See the [http://www.doodle.com/n2by9c2dgwrdbya8 Attendance Tracking Poll] for this meeting, and [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 
* See the [http://www.doodle.com/n2by9c2dgwrdbya8 Attendance Tracking Poll] for this meeting, and [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 +
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
 +
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
 +
* '''No-Show:''' Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, John Graham, Thomas Hallgren, Jochen Krause, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
 
<!--
 
<!--
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Eugene Chan, Neil Hauge, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
+
* '''Dormant:'''  
* '''Tentative:'''
+
** Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, Mark Vandenbrink, John Wiegand
* '''Regrets:''' David Carver, Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
+
**  
* '''No-Show:'''
+
* '''Unknown:'''
+
** Boris Bokowski, Brian Fitzpatrick, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, Georg Schmidt, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
+
** Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, John Wiegand
+
** John Arthorne, Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Jochen Krause, Jeff McAffer
+
** Naci Dai, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Thomas Hallgren, Wenfeng Li, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Tom Schindl, Mark Vandenbrink, David Williams
+
 
-->
 
-->
  
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=== Review of Action Items ===
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008#Action Items]]
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008#Action Items]]
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn. One more to follow before publicly announcing?
+
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
* (''old'') MichaelS to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
+
* (''old'') Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
 
* (''old'') Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
 
* (''old'') Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
 
* (''old'') Everyone to hyperlink to their Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page
 
* (''old'') Everyone to hyperlink to their Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page
 
* (''old'') Everyone to hyperlink on the new [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] to interesting architecture-related blogs, articles or other resources
 
* (''old'') Everyone to hyperlink on the new [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] to interesting architecture-related blogs, articles or other resources
 
* (''old'') All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
 
* (''old'') All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
* '''Wayne''' to file bug for portal to add fields for project mentors
+
* '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' {{bug|250326}} bug for portal to add fields for project mentors
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Ed, Gunnar, Karsten''' to E-Mail their affiliation to Anne Jacko <emo@eclipse.org>
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Ed, Gunnar, Karsten''' to E-Mail their affiliation to Anne Jacko <emo@eclipse.org>
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Georg''' {{bug|250348}} questions / things unclear for him as a new AC member
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Georg''' {{bug|250348}} questions / things unclear for him as a new AC member
* '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
 
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to contact David Orme - he wants to think about it
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to contact David Orme - he wants to think about it
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' {{bug|250320}} ask webmaster to create eclipse.org-committers-announce mailing list
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' {{bug|250320}} ask webmaster to create eclipse.org-committers-announce mailing list
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=== Administrative ===
 
=== Administrative ===
 
* New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
 
* New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
 +
** Tom: Platform-UI and E4 committer, UFace project, UI Modeling
 +
** Bernd (for Karsten): interested in seeing how Eclipse Architecture evolves, and probably influence it... Karsten to give a talk about SAP perspective at ESE
 
* Linda Chan proposal
 
* Linda Chan proposal
** Our existing Charter [[Architecture Council#How Do I Become A Member of the Architecture Council?]] requires: '''"simple majority of +1's"'''... that's hard to achieve, even not counting dormant members! And we didn't quite observe it for Tom and Dave recently. Bjorn?
+
** Our existing Charter [[Architecture Council#How Do I Become A Member of the Architecture Council?]] requires: '''"simple majority of +1's"'''... that's hard to achieve, even not counting dormant members!
** Linda is BIRT committer -- rather than appointing her personally, the DTP or BIRT PMC could nominate her as representative if they want
+
** '''Decision:''' we'll bring up proposed new members in the phone conference and discuss their proposal there. In case the "simple majority of +1's" is not achieved during voting (which is quite likely), we'll discuss the candidate at the next phone meeting and come to a decision there.
* Tracking Meeting Attendance - Doodle
+
** '''AI Martin''' update the charter to mention the phone decision fallback
 +
** Linda is BIRT committer -- rather than appointing her personally, the DTP or BIRT PMC could nominate her as representative, Martin to suggest that to Wenfeng.
 
* 4 members became dormant - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
 
* 4 members became dormant - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
 
* Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
 
* Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
 
** Dormant status mostly to reflect responsiveness to voting. Richard Gronback for instance been very responsive but not involved in discussions.
 
** Dormant status mostly to reflect responsiveness to voting. Richard Gronback for instance been very responsive but not involved in discussions.
 
** Martin in favor of sending a Dormant Announcement E-Mail if in doubt, even if "some" activity was there, as a reminder for the member... don't want to be overly picky though
 
** Martin in favor of sending a Dormant Announcement E-Mail if in doubt, even if "some" activity was there, as a reminder for the member... don't want to be overly picky though
* Firefly in need of a Mentor - {{bug|254906}}
+
* Projects in need of Mentors
* COSMOS in need of a Mentor - file a bug?
+
** {{bug|253040}} Faceted Project Framework (FPF) - thanks ''Neil Hauge'' and ''Oisin Hurley''
** How do projects find/attract a mentor? Filing bug is good for us, but I'm told it's inconvenient for projects... do we just need to document it better? Or allow them to contact AC members privately... {{bug|251747}} private discussions?
+
** {{bug|254906}} FireFly DevKit - thanks ''Doug Gaff'' and ''Gunnar Wagenknecht''
 +
** Others, see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]]: ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT -- '''AI File a Bug''' (best have the project file one), [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council use this link] for filing the bug. '''AI Wayne''' contact technology projects telling them to file the bug.
 +
** Wayne: Filing a bug is good, it tells new projects how we're doing things at Eclipse. AC members need to get active and kick in on the bug. AC is for mentorship -- every AC member should mentor some project.
 +
** Martin: Let's discuss on the bugs... hav AC members ask questions like "tell me more".
 +
** Wayne: Many of us don't know yet what it means to be a mentor... let's talk about what it means to be a Mentor. All AC members should have at least 1 project - '''AI Wayne''', let's sit together at ESE talking about Mentorship and have the Wiki page as a result; don't make decisions at the ESE F2F
 +
** Getting a Mentorship Description will also help upper Mgmt understand time commitment for Mentorship
 
* Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
 
* Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
 
** PMC's and AC are expected to know the FAQ's better, we can answer questions by pointing at the FAQ's
 
** PMC's and AC are expected to know the FAQ's better, we can answer questions by pointing at the FAQ's
 
** We need a good backup channel to the EMO for IP/Legal questions we cannot answer. MikeM: going to create a "closed group" on IPZilla for asking Mike's opinion.
 
** We need a good backup channel to the EMO for IP/Legal questions we cannot answer. MikeM: going to create a "closed group" on IPZilla for asking Mike's opinion.
* [[Architecture Council/F2F ESE 2008]]
+
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/Nov 18 2008 F2F ESE 2008]]
** Everybody signed up who can be there?
+
** Please sign up if you haven't yet so we can reserve a table large enough. Please update the Agenda.
 
** Martin would like some actual work discussions, not just informal gathering, we've got enough bugs to discuss.. agenda?
 
** Martin would like some actual work discussions, not just informal gathering, we've got enough bugs to discuss.. agenda?
  
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome?
+
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome? -- '''AI Martin''' ask Don
 +
** Markus: Risks, Opportunities Threats for Galileo. Don is the only one who has the slides.
 
* Updated [http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/eclipse/fnews/~3/451145829/20081112_termsofuse.php Website Terms of Use]
 
* Updated [http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/eclipse/fnews/~3/451145829/20081112_termsofuse.php Website Terms of Use]
 
* Wayne: [[Community Development for Eclipse Projects]] page
 
* Wayne: [[Community Development for Eclipse Projects]] page
 +
** Some ideas (geared for Technology right now), what projects should be doing... would love to get input... checklist for Mentors
 
** {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
 
** {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
* EMO: {{bug|250317}} How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
+
*** Scheduling will be challenging: Wayne to start, but cannot do it all ... collect suggestions on EAC mailing list and/or Wiki, send it out by schedule
* '''RC - Roadmap Process''': [[RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities]] - are we happy with it?
+
*** Blog Entry? - 1 paragraph only, but E-Mailed? Mail to set P2 (important); archive of tips on the Wiki (live, changeable document!)
* '''PC''' - Richard Gronback: '''New [[Galileo]] Requirements''' from the Planning Council?
+
*** Start with Suggestion Wiki, moving items 1 by 1 to the Archive Wiki as they are sent to the committers list.
** Must do: Use only Published API by M6
+
** Must do: Provide basic Capability / Activity Definitions by M6
+
** Must do: Use Babel by M6
+
  
 
=== Architecture ===
 
=== Architecture ===
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** What can we do to foster fine granular re-use of functionality?  
 
** What can we do to foster fine granular re-use of functionality?  
 
** Much of it seems a timing (release train) issue, as well as communication. It's easy for established mature technology but hard for incubating one.
 
** Much of it seems a timing (release train) issue, as well as communication. It's easy for established mature technology but hard for incubating one.
 
+
** Mik: Consuming other project's bundles is easy (if you know where they are)
=== Recent EAC bugs on Process and other topics ===
+
** Features vs bundles
* {{bug|253889}} JIRA vs bugzilla - just close it?
+
** An "Orbit" for Eclipse projects... things that are "generally useful"
* {{bug|249371}} The new [http://www.eclipse.org Eclipse.org homepage]
+
** org.eclipse.mylyn.commons for others to consume
* {{bug|249959}} Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
+
** Ed: Cyclic dependencies may be an issue -- although we have cyclic dependencies between Equinox and back vice versa
* {{bug|249745}} Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse); Mercurial, Git Bazaar
+
** Tom: Trick is keeping project functionality separate, then small pieces from it are re-usable (Equinox / ECF)
* {{bug|246840}} Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC?
+
** Mik: Maintaining different project sets for different consumers
* {{bug|246945}} Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)
+
** Mik: Re-use of small functionality is possible today... tell people to try it out and see what's easier for them...
 
+
=== How to start Releng? ===
+
* [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00578.html How to start a releng project for unattended builds] on the ML - PDE build docs are good but only half the story
+
** Bjorn, NickB & Denis CBI [[Build Workshop 3: Build Hard With A Purpose]] but is that an answer for now? Current status?
+
** CBI being adopted by Paul Webster for e4
+
** Refer people to clone existing projects' releng? Which ones are good?
+
 
+
=== Top Ten Recommendations ===
+
* [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations]] - should we start sorting them?
+
* [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] - want more, more, more!
+
 
+
=== Relationship to [[E4]] ===
+
* [[E4/Pervasive Themes]] - Performance, Memory Footprint, [http://borisoneclipse.blogspot.com/2008/10/avoiding-bloat.html Bloat (Boris' Blog)], Concurrency
+
* Invite E4 to present to the EAC?
+
 
+
=== Concurrency ===
+
* Examples: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245573#c12 bug 245573 comment 12] (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); {{bug|246840}} discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
+
* What is causing issues?
+
** work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
+
** work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
+
** General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
+
** Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
+
** Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of [[E4]] ?
+
*** [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-incubator-e4-dev/msg00615.html David Orme] mentions DataBinding Realms and the [http://fpgacomputing.blogspot.com/2008/08/threads-considered-harmful-for-same.html Threads Considered Harmful] blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
+
*** Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
+
*** Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
+
** Better Javadoc ?
+
*** Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
+
** Articles ? - John referenced the [http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Resource-deltas/resource-deltas.html#1d resource-deltas] article
+
 
+
===Mentoring New Projects===
+
* We need more Architecture Council members to step up and become project mentors
+
**New projects require two mentors (a Good Thing&trade;)
+
* How do new projects find/attract a mentor?
+
**Mailing list, bugzilla?
+
**"Work the crowd"
+
* Experiences?
+
**What could be improved?
+
** Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
+
 
+
=== Other Ideas for Discussion ===
+
 
+
 
+
* '''Mentoring Galileo''': What could be improved?
+
** Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
+
** Don't duplicate work done by the [[Planning Council]]
+
** '''Integrated bug reporting''': Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers {{bug|212209}} (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ).  Do we want this for Galileo?
+
 
+
* [[E4]] now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
+
 
+
* '''Eclipse Pain Points'''
+
** Performance & Memory Footprint, Bloat
+
** Restrictions on Resource model (Maven)
+
** IP due diligence and the processes around it
+
** Lots of these issues are already worked on by E4, and/or Committer Representatives at the Board, and/or the Planning Council
+
** But the EAC's charter includes identifying and naming pain pionts... anything not yet being addressed?
+
*** Re-activate [[Top Ten Architectural Problems in all of Eclipse]] ?
+
*** Re-activate [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]] ?
+
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' {{bug|252015}} "what you should know" -- [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]]
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' to ask projects in need of a mentor [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council file a bug] against the AC
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the AC charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
 +
* '''Everyone''' who's at ESE think about discussion items, and fill the [[Architecture Council/F2F ESE 2008]] Agenda page
 +
* '''Everyone''' please use [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Poll] to send regrets for next meeting if you cannot come
 +
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' fill in your Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page
 +
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]]
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 11 2008|Thursday, November 11]]
+
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008|Tuesday, December 16]]
 +
 
 +
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]

Latest revision as of 16:41, 20 March 2011

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday November 13, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
passcode 464440#

Attendees

  • See the Attendance Tracking Poll for this meeting, and this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
  • No-Show: Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, John Graham, Thomas Hallgren, Jochen Krause, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

  • Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes October 9 2008#Action Items
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
  • (old) Everyone to hyperlink to their Bio on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page
  • (old) Everyone to hyperlink on the new Architecture Council/Links Collection to interesting architecture-related blogs, articles or other resources
  • (old) All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
  • Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
  • Ok green.gif Wayne bug 250326 bug for portal to add fields for project mentors
  • Ok green.gif Ed, Gunnar, Karsten to E-Mail their affiliation to Anne Jacko <emo@eclipse.org>
  • Ok green.gif Georg bug 250348 questions / things unclear for him as a new AC member
  • Ok green.gif Martin to contact David Orme - he wants to think about it
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250320 ask webmaster to create eclipse.org-committers-announce mailing list
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250315 asking for better attendance tracking at AC meetings
  • Ok green.gif Martin bug 250317 for discussing ways of spreading EMO information

Administrative

  • New Members: Tom Schindl (appointed), Karsten Schmidt (Strategic Consumer Rep), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
    • Tom: Platform-UI and E4 committer, UFace project, UI Modeling
    • Bernd (for Karsten): interested in seeing how Eclipse Architecture evolves, and probably influence it... Karsten to give a talk about SAP perspective at ESE
  • Linda Chan proposal
    • Our existing Charter Architecture Council#How Do I Become A Member of the Architecture Council? requires: "simple majority of +1's"... that's hard to achieve, even not counting dormant members!
    • Decision: we'll bring up proposed new members in the phone conference and discuss their proposal there. In case the "simple majority of +1's" is not achieved during voting (which is quite likely), we'll discuss the candidate at the next phone meeting and come to a decision there.
    • AI Martin update the charter to mention the phone decision fallback
    • Linda is BIRT committer -- rather than appointing her personally, the DTP or BIRT PMC could nominate her as representative, Martin to suggest that to Wenfeng.
  • 4 members became dormant - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
    • Dormant status mostly to reflect responsiveness to voting. Richard Gronback for instance been very responsive but not involved in discussions.
    • Martin in favor of sending a Dormant Announcement E-Mail if in doubt, even if "some" activity was there, as a reminder for the member... don't want to be overly picky though
  • Projects in need of Mentors
    • bug 253040 Faceted Project Framework (FPF) - thanks Neil Hauge and Oisin Hurley
    • bug 254906 FireFly DevKit - thanks Doug Gaff and Gunnar Wagenknecht
    • Others, see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors: ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT -- AI File a Bug (best have the project file one), use this link for filing the bug. AI Wayne contact technology projects telling them to file the bug.
    • Wayne: Filing a bug is good, it tells new projects how we're doing things at Eclipse. AC members need to get active and kick in on the bug. AC is for mentorship -- every AC member should mentor some project.
    • Martin: Let's discuss on the bugs... hav AC members ask questions like "tell me more".
    • Wayne: Many of us don't know yet what it means to be a mentor... let's talk about what it means to be a Mentor. All AC members should have at least 1 project - AI Wayne, let's sit together at ESE talking about Mentorship and have the Wiki page as a result; don't make decisions at the ESE F2F
    • Getting a Mentorship Description will also help upper Mgmt understand time commitment for Mentorship
  • Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
    • PMC's and AC are expected to know the FAQ's better, we can answer questions by pointing at the FAQ's
    • We need a good backup channel to the EMO for IP/Legal questions we cannot answer. MikeM: going to create a "closed group" on IPZilla for asking Mike's opinion.
  • Architecture Council/Meetings/Nov 18 2008 F2F ESE 2008
    • Please sign up if you haven't yet so we can reserve a table large enough. Please update the Agenda.
    • Martin would like some actual work discussions, not just informal gathering, we've got enough bugs to discuss.. agenda?

News from the EMO & Councils

  • Don: StAC meeting at Eclipse World -- outcome? -- AI Martin ask Don
    • Markus: Risks, Opportunities Threats for Galileo. Don is the only one who has the slides.
  • Updated Website Terms of Use
  • Wayne: Community Development for Eclipse Projects page
    • Some ideas (geared for Technology right now), what projects should be doing... would love to get input... checklist for Mentors
    • bug 252015 Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
      • Scheduling will be challenging: Wayne to start, but cannot do it all ... collect suggestions on EAC mailing list and/or Wiki, send it out by schedule
      • Blog Entry? - 1 paragraph only, but E-Mailed? Mail to set P2 (important); archive of tips on the Wiki (live, changeable document!)
      • Start with Suggestion Wiki, moving items 1 by 1 to the Archive Wiki as they are sent to the committers list.

Architecture

  • bug 167144 "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
    • Nexus Project Proposal vs. Faceted Project proposal.
    • What can we do to foster fine granular re-use of functionality?
    • Much of it seems a timing (release train) issue, as well as communication. It's easy for established mature technology but hard for incubating one.
    • Mik: Consuming other project's bundles is easy (if you know where they are)
    • Features vs bundles
    • An "Orbit" for Eclipse projects... things that are "generally useful"
    • org.eclipse.mylyn.commons for others to consume
    • Ed: Cyclic dependencies may be an issue -- although we have cyclic dependencies between Equinox and back vice versa
    • Tom: Trick is keeping project functionality separate, then small pieces from it are re-usable (Equinox / ECF)
    • Mik: Maintaining different project sets for different consumers
    • Mik: Re-use of small functionality is possible today... tell people to try it out and see what's easier for them...

Action Items

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