Architecture Council/Minutes January 15 2009
|Meeting Title:||Architecture Council Monthly Meeting|
|Date & Time:|| Tuesday January 8, 2009 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin|
HTML | iCal
|Dial-in:|| (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or|
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
- Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
|DTP:||Brian Fitzpatrick||Linda Chan|
|DSDP:||Doug Gaff||Martin Oberhuber|
|Eclipse:||Philippe Mulet||Mike Wilson|
|Modeling:||Richard Gronback||Ed Merks|
|RT:||Jeff McAffer||Jochen Krause|
|STP:||Oisin Hurley|| |
|Technology:||Gunnar Wagenknecht||Wayne Beaton|
|WTP:||Tim deBoer||Dave Carver|
- Signed-up: Sven Efftinge, Bernd Kolb,
- Regrets: Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items
- All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
- All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
- Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
- Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes, see Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics
- Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
- Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- (old) Everyone add to the Architecture Council/Links Collection
- (old) Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
- Still open items moved to #Action Items
- New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
- New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
- New Architecture Council/Templates
- AC Admin via the Portal
- bug 256318 - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
- IP/Legal Discussions: IPZilla closed group is up, pending bug 214133 for accessing it through the Portal
- AC Website Revamp - Dave Carver new Category pages:
- PMC Representation on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
- Efficient Communications
- Many AC members are involved in very many things. Need to communicate efficiently, with low "data to noise ratio"
- We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
- Goal should be that it is easy to track what we are doing without getting spammed, and get notified of urgent matters.
- Avoid sending response to a meeting invitation / out-of-office back to the list (Mary, Mark, Eugene)
- It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H)
- Note the RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List: helpful for referencing previous postings
News from the EMO & Councils
- December Board Minutes available?
- StAC 090115 Minutes meeting for funding release train activities: following this meeting
- Based on StAC 081028 Minutes SWOT analysis
- Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009 Meeting on Sunday before the conference (Mar 22) afternoon
- Proposed StAC meeting 3pm-5pm including the AC, PC and RC; but we have some topics (like mentorship) not so interesting for the other councils
- Architecture Council/Ask the AC Panel: many questions are important for ourselves to understand and answer consistently
- Philippe Mulet - Eclipse Adoption and API Deprecation Policy
- Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too?
- How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased?
- Tagging change / tools to detect change
- How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible?
- Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source
- Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early
- How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily?
- API Deprecation Policy / Soft deprecation tag
- Martin - Architectural Pillars of Eclipse
- The original AC charter included a task to draw/maintain architecture diagrams
- With Eclipse based technology in so many and diverse areas, what is it that makes Eclipse Eclipse?
- Better understanding our Community
- The License - EPL, the big effort of being IP clean, and awareness of IP
- The Development Processs - Eclipse Projects are meant to be open, transparent and release by a known plan. Maturity stages. Commercial Open Source. Bugzilla, Newsgroups, Mailinglists.
- Java - the language of choice for most stuff although there are efforts to allow other languages as well
- OSGi / Equinox - The component model for everything at Eclipse, differentiates us from other communities (Apache, Netbeans)
- SWT - Although there are few (runtime) efforts without SWT or with AWT/Swing integrations, SWT still builds a strong foundation for most Eclipse/RCP Apps and with the e4 investment in using SWT for Eclipse in the Browser, it'll likely remain so.
- Application Model - the "twenty things", mostly UI/IDE concepts already, see E4/Eclipse Application Model
- Others? E.g. Plugin Registry, our tooling (JDT, PDE), provisioning (p2)? What is it that newcomers need to learn first about Eclipse?
- Tom S: Project Proposals - RCP infra for getting them in easily vs. Wiki pages
- Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
- Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC) - recurring scanning of all code for IP issues
- Martin: Architecture Diagrams -
- Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
- It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
- Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
- Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
- Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
- Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
- AI Martin ask on mailing list
- Denis' blog on dead bugzilla's.
- bug 256660 What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
- Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
- (old) Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort