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| Date & Time:  
 
| Date & Time:  
| Tuesday [[January 8, 2009]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2009&month=1&day=8&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal]
+
| Thursday [[January 15, 2009]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2009&month=1&day=15&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal]
 
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| Dial-in:
 
| Dial-in:
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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
| Wenfeng Li
+
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
 
| Gary Xue
 
| Gary Xue
 
|-
 
|-
Line 28: Line 28:
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
| Philippe Mulet
+
| Philippe Mulet (drop off early)
 
| Mike Wilson
 
| Mike Wilson
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| Richard Gronback
 
| Richard Gronback
| Ed Merks
+
| <strike>Ed Merks</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| Jeff McAffer
 
| Jeff McAffer
| Jochen Krause
+
| <strike>Jochen Krause</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''STP:'''
 
| '''STP:'''
|
+
| Oisin Hurley
|  
+
| <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''
 
| '''Technology:'''
| Gunnar Wagenknecht
+
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
|-
 
|-
Line 52: Line 52:
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''TPTP:'''
 
| '''TPTP:'''
| Eugene Chan
+
| <strike>Eugene Chan</strike>
| <strike>Oliver Cole</strike>
+
| <strike>Oliver Cole</strike><br/>Joanna Kubasta
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| Tim deBoer
 
| Tim deBoer
|  
+
| Dave Carver
 
|}
 
|}
<!--
+
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Sven Efftinge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Andrew Overholt, Doug Schaefer, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, David Williams, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Doug Gaff, Markus Knauer, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
+
* '''Regrets:''' Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Neil Hauge, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink
* '''Regrets:''' Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright
+
* '''No-Show:''' Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Naci Dai, Oisin Hurley, Jochen Krause, Ed Merks, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Gunnar Wagenknecht
* '''No-Show:'''  
+
* '''Unknown:'''
+
** Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Brian Fitzpatrick, John Graham, Mik Kersten
+
** Jochen Krause, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Philippe Mulet, David Williams, Mike Wilson
+
-->
+
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
Line 72: Line 67:
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items]]
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#Action Items]]
* '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]
* '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug])
+
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes
+
** New [http://wiki.eclipse.org/Category:Architecture_Council Category markup] allows us to tag other (non-AC) pages such that they show up under AC
* '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
+
** Better organize the AC homepage: collect feedback... '''AI Dave''' send links to other Wiki pages for review to check which ones we might want to emulate, also, everyone can make suggestions / create mock-up pages for review.
* '''Martin''' to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes, see [[Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008#New Topics]]
* '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
+
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]]
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
+
** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
+
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
+
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]]
+
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
+
  
 
=== Administrative ===
 
=== Administrative ===
* '''New Members''': Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
+
* '''New Members''': Linda Chan (Actuate, Bay Area, DTP), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member, itemis, northern Germany, TMF Lead)
 
* New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
 
* New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
 
* New [[Architecture Council/Templates]]
 
* New [[Architecture Council/Templates]]
* '''AC Admin via the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]'''
+
** AC Wiki pages are fairly complete now. Martin dumping his knowledge/E-Mail templates for others to use.
** {{bug|256318}} - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
+
** '''AI Everyone''' review the Wiki pages and change anything unclear. Feel free to edit the Wiki!
* '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail], '''AI Mike''' IPZilla closed group?
+
** '''AI Andrew Overholt''' to chair next month's call (Feb 12)
* '''AC Website Revamp''' - Dave Carver [[Category:Architecture Council]]
+
* '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' IPZilla closed group is up, pending {{bug|214133}} for accessing it through the Portal
 
* '''PMC Representation''' on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
 
* '''PMC Representation''' on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
 
* '''Efficient Communications'''
 
* '''Efficient Communications'''
Line 99: Line 88:
 
** We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
 
** We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
 
** Goal should be that it is '''easy to track''' what we are doing without getting spammed, and '''get notified of urgent matters'''.
 
** Goal should be that it is '''easy to track''' what we are doing without getting spammed, and '''get notified of urgent matters'''.
 +
** Avoid sending response to a meeting invitation / out-of-office back to the list ([http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00815.html Mary], [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00821.html Mark], [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00820.html Eugene])
 +
*** It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H)
 +
** Note the [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/maillist.rss RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List]: helpful for referencing previous postings
 +
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION:'''</font> AC is happy with current communication patterns.
  
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
* December Board Minutes available?
+
* December [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Official Board Minutes] not yet done
 +
** Doug Gaff [http://eclipse-committer-reps.blogspot.com/2008/12/december-2008-board-meeting.html summarizes the december board meeting] on the Committer Reps Blog
 +
* '''Mik: Are the EPP distributions "products"?'''
 +
** {{bug|261365}} Board says No. No clear actions out of that, but it should be reflected on the download pages.
 +
** McQ: It doesn't matter what we label the EPP packages as... users just treat them as such, especially wrt JDT
 +
** Much Platform/UI bug triage work goes into things that should really be associated with other projects: a large portion of bugs doesn't have value!
 +
** Can we label stuff as "limited support" ?
 +
** Can we do something like Red Hat (with RHEL / Fedora distros)?
 +
** Jeff: Better highlight that there are supported offerings? Make it clearer what the support level is?
 +
** In Linux, are bugs reported against the distro or against upstream projects?
 +
** Martin: "Report a bug" wizard?
 +
** Boris: Why isn't there a "Services" company interested in creating a distro with a "report a bug" wizard and make money out of that?
 +
** Jeff: Make it clear in a positive way that stuff is available FOR FREE... and some bugs may be closed "WONTFIX"
 +
** Firefox and Openoffice are also treated as "products"...
 +
** Martin: "Expectation" discussion (to be held at planning council?) vs. technical "Low quality bugs" discussion
 +
*** Mik: Help > Report this bug ... button in every distro that includes Mylyn been doing more harm than good so far
 +
*** Kevin McGuire wanted to get bug auto-reported against Distro rather than component?
 +
*** Boris: Platform UI tries to redirect bugs properly, not too big an issue for them
 +
** Martin: Windows 7 "Report a enhancement request with THIS component"
 +
*** ... they set the expecatation like "We won't respond but your comment is valuable"
 +
*** Mik: new "report bug" wizard allows to select any feature that has UI
 +
*** Boris: "report bug" wizard could show a webpage with (paid) ads of companies for commercial support... commercial products could replace that by their commercial support page
 +
*** Mik: Mylyn has an extension point for registering commercial support
 +
*** '''AI Mik to propose a date for demoing the feature at EclipseCon'''
 +
*** Doug Gaff (added after the meeting): I just want to summarize this by reminding folks that the EMO committed to 1) indicating that EPP packages are community support only and 2) providing links to Vendors that offer supported, commercial distros. Beyond this, it's in the community's hands.
 +
* [[StAC 090115 Minutes]] meeting for funding release train activities: following this meeting
 +
** Based on [[StAC 081028 Minutes]] SWOT analysis
  
 
=== New Topics ===
 
=== New Topics ===
* '''IBM - John Kellerman''' - API Deprecation Policy
+
* '''EclipseCon''' - AC meeting on Sunday before the conference (Mar 22) afternoon
* [[Version_Numbering_Galileo_Update | Updates to version numbering guidelines]]
+
** Proposed StAC meeting 3pm-5pm including the AC, PC and RC; but we have some topics (like mentorship) not so interesting for the other councils
 +
** Official [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 22 F2F EclipseCon 2009]] from 5pm-6pm, inofficial afterwards (Program Committee get-together after 6pm); want to have pizza dinner
 +
** [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] Panel: many questions are important for ourselves to understand and answer consistently
  
=== Recent Discussions ===
+
* McQ - '''[http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-pmc/msg00556.html Eclipse Adoption] and API Deprecation Policy'''
* '''Mentorship'''
+
** Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too?
 
+
** How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased?
* '''Tom S: Project Proposals''' - RCP infra for getting them in easily vs. Wiki pages
+
*** Tagging change / tools to detect change
 
+
** How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible?
* '''Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds''' - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
+
*** Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source
 
+
*** Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early
* '''Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC)''' - recurring scanning of all code for IP issues
+
** How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily?
 
+
*** API Deprecation Policy / Soft deprecation tag
* '''Martin: Duplication''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/m2eclipse m2eclipse] and [http://www.eclipse.org/iam IAM] for Maven
+
** Is it reasonable to expect API-clean clients?
 
+
** Dave Williams: Semantic differences are hard; in WTP, there are tools for scanning code and reporting back; would like to see PDE API Tools move into usage scanning as well
* '''Martin: Architecture Diagrams''' -
+
** McQ: Want scanners on beyond-bundle-granularity to report usage. Should we do that between projects? Setup a database for the information?
** Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
+
** Jeff: Low-fidelity / high-fidelity analyzers of usage
** It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
+
** Martin: are we softening the "You must be API clean" story?
** Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
+
** McQ: we should still be talking about "you must be API clean", but how can we live with reality? API does change. Take the low-level SWT event mechanism for instance. Can we tag non-API as "you're OK to use it"?
*** Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
+
** DaveW: at this point, we should be collecting information and then decide on what to do with the information.
*** Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
+
** Dave Carver: often, there is no way doing something without going "internal". How many people have actually requested something become API?
*** Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
+
** Report will also be good to find out what non-API should be made API
** '''AI Martin''' ask on mailing list
+
** McQ: Formal deprecation policy?
 
+
*** Jeff: Setup another call for the deprecation thing? Start up simple and start a scanner for all of Eclipse.org
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's].
+
*** Darin: API Tooling currently working on scanners to discover references between plugins, generating report or dumping into a DB
** {{bug|256660}} What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
+
** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
+
  
 
=== Old items ===
 
=== Old items ===
Line 136: Line 155:
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
 +
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
 +
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
 +
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
 +
** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
 +
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
 +
* (''old'') '''Mik''' to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
 +
* (''old'') '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
 +
* (''old'') '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug])
 +
* '''Dave Carver''' send links to Wiki pages which we might want to emulate for the AC Homepage
 +
* '''Mik''' to propose a date for demoing the Mylyn "report a bug" feature
 +
* '''Everyone''' review/edit the various [[Architecture Council]] wiki pages, particularly the [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] Panel/FAQ and [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]]. Add questions to the FAQ.
 +
* '''Martin''' to schedule [[Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122]] call
 +
* '''Martin''' to schedule [[Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009]] - Sunday 5pm-6pm
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2008|Thursday, February 12]]
+
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/API Deprecation 20080119]] call on Monday, Jan 19
 +
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes February 12 2009|Thursday, February 12]]
 +
 
 +
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]

Latest revision as of 08:43, 5 March 2009

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday January 15, 2009 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
passcode 464440#

Attendees

  • Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Fitzpatrick Linda Chan
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Philippe Mulet (drop off early) Mike Wilson
Modeling: Richard Gronback Ed Merks
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
STP: Oisin Hurley Antoine Toulme
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: John Duimovich
TPTP: Eugene Chan Oliver Cole
Joanna Kubasta
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Sven Efftinge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Andrew Overholt, Doug Schaefer, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, David Williams, Darin Wright, Gary Xue
  • Regrets: Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Oliver Cole, Adrian Colyer, John Graham, Neil Hauge, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink
  • No-Show: Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Naci Dai, Oisin Hurley, Jochen Krause, Ed Merks, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Gunnar Wagenknecht

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

Administrative

  • New Members: Linda Chan (Actuate, Bay Area, DTP), Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member, itemis, northern Germany, TMF Lead)
  • New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • New Architecture Council/Templates
    • AC Wiki pages are fairly complete now. Martin dumping his knowledge/E-Mail templates for others to use.
    • AI Everyone review the Wiki pages and change anything unclear. Feel free to edit the Wiki!
    • AI Andrew Overholt to chair next month's call (Feb 12)
  • IP/Legal Discussions: IPZilla closed group is up, pending bug 214133 for accessing it through the Portal
  • PMC Representation on the AC - backup delegates, 1 attendee required
  • Efficient Communications
    • Many AC members are involved in very many things. Need to communicate efficiently, with low "data to noise ratio"
    • We already have: Bugzilla on creation/close only with opt-in; [URGENT] tag; Doodle for attendance tracking/voting; Wiki for discussions; anything else we could improve?
    • Goal should be that it is easy to track what we are doing without getting spammed, and get notified of urgent matters.
    • Avoid sending response to a meeting invitation / out-of-office back to the list (Mary, Mark, Eugene)
      • It's interesting that some others (IBM'ers) have responded privately to Martin (John A, Darin S, Tom W, Dave W, Kevin H)
    • Note the RSS Feed for the AC Mailing List: helpful for referencing previous postings
    • RESOLUTION: AC is happy with current communication patterns.

News from the EMO & Councils

  • December Official Board Minutes not yet done
  • Mik: Are the EPP distributions "products"?
    • bug 261365 Board says No. No clear actions out of that, but it should be reflected on the download pages.
    • McQ: It doesn't matter what we label the EPP packages as... users just treat them as such, especially wrt JDT
    • Much Platform/UI bug triage work goes into things that should really be associated with other projects: a large portion of bugs doesn't have value!
    • Can we label stuff as "limited support" ?
    • Can we do something like Red Hat (with RHEL / Fedora distros)?
    • Jeff: Better highlight that there are supported offerings? Make it clearer what the support level is?
    • In Linux, are bugs reported against the distro or against upstream projects?
    • Martin: "Report a bug" wizard?
    • Boris: Why isn't there a "Services" company interested in creating a distro with a "report a bug" wizard and make money out of that?
    • Jeff: Make it clear in a positive way that stuff is available FOR FREE... and some bugs may be closed "WONTFIX"
    • Firefox and Openoffice are also treated as "products"...
    • Martin: "Expectation" discussion (to be held at planning council?) vs. technical "Low quality bugs" discussion
      • Mik: Help > Report this bug ... button in every distro that includes Mylyn been doing more harm than good so far
      • Kevin McGuire wanted to get bug auto-reported against Distro rather than component?
      • Boris: Platform UI tries to redirect bugs properly, not too big an issue for them
    • Martin: Windows 7 "Report a enhancement request with THIS component"
      • ... they set the expecatation like "We won't respond but your comment is valuable"
      • Mik: new "report bug" wizard allows to select any feature that has UI
      • Boris: "report bug" wizard could show a webpage with (paid) ads of companies for commercial support... commercial products could replace that by their commercial support page
      • Mik: Mylyn has an extension point for registering commercial support
      • AI Mik to propose a date for demoing the feature at EclipseCon
      • Doug Gaff (added after the meeting): I just want to summarize this by reminding folks that the EMO committed to 1) indicating that EPP packages are community support only and 2) providing links to Vendors that offer supported, commercial distros. Beyond this, it's in the community's hands.
  • StAC 090115 Minutes meeting for funding release train activities: following this meeting

New Topics

  • EclipseCon - AC meeting on Sunday before the conference (Mar 22) afternoon
  • McQ - Eclipse Adoption and API Deprecation Policy
    • Platform clients have problems updating to newer Eclipse versions, in spite of remaining binary API compatible. Do others see this too?
    • How can inevitable migration effort (e.g. due to fixing semantic errors in API) be eased?
      • Tagging change / tools to detect change
    • How can we help clients become API-clean, and how can we help protect investment where API cleanliness is impossible?
      • Tools to report usage of non-API even in closed source
      • Allow clients to contribute unittests for code where they (have to) leverage internal non-API, in order to detect breakage early
    • How can we help clients detect usage of obsoleted features, and migrate to the new replacement feature more easily?
      • API Deprecation Policy / Soft deprecation tag
    • Is it reasonable to expect API-clean clients?
    • Dave Williams: Semantic differences are hard; in WTP, there are tools for scanning code and reporting back; would like to see PDE API Tools move into usage scanning as well
    • McQ: Want scanners on beyond-bundle-granularity to report usage. Should we do that between projects? Setup a database for the information?
    • Jeff: Low-fidelity / high-fidelity analyzers of usage
    • Martin: are we softening the "You must be API clean" story?
    • McQ: we should still be talking about "you must be API clean", but how can we live with reality? API does change. Take the low-level SWT event mechanism for instance. Can we tag non-API as "you're OK to use it"?
    • DaveW: at this point, we should be collecting information and then decide on what to do with the information.
    • Dave Carver: often, there is no way doing something without going "internal". How many people have actually requested something become API?
    • Report will also be good to find out what non-API should be made API
    • McQ: Formal deprecation policy?
      • Jeff: Setup another call for the deprecation thing? Start up simple and start a scanner for all of Eclipse.org
      • Darin: API Tooling currently working on scanners to discover references between plugins, generating report or dumping into a DB

Old items

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
  • (old) Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
  • (old) All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
  • Dave Carver send links to Wiki pages which we might want to emulate for the AC Homepage
  • Mik to propose a date for demoing the Mylyn "report a bug" feature
  • Everyone review/edit the various Architecture Council wiki pages, particularly the Architecture Council/Ask the AC Panel/FAQ and Architecture Council/Links Collection. Add questions to the FAQ.
  • Martin to schedule Architecture Council/Minutes API Deprecation 20080122 call
  • Martin to schedule Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009 - Sunday 5pm-6pm

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