Notice: this Wiki will be going read only early in 2024 and edits will no longer be possible. Please see: https://gitlab.eclipse.org/eclipsefdn/helpdesk/-/wikis/Wiki-shutdown-plan for the plan.
Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008"
| (33 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown) | |||
| Line 4: | Line 4: | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Date & Time: | | Date & Time: | ||
| − | | Tuesday [[December 16, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=16&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal] | + | | Tuesday [[December 16, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=16&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal] ([http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=acbx8ith7ttbgvsr schedule finding poll]) |
|- | |- | ||
| Dial-in: | | Dial-in: | ||
| '''(+1) 613.287.8000''' (Ottawa and international) or<br>866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)<br>passcode '''464440#''' | | '''(+1) 613.287.8000''' (Ottawa and international) or<br>866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)<br>passcode '''464440#''' | ||
|} | |} | ||
| + | <br/> | ||
| + | <hr/> | ||
== Attendees == | == Attendees == | ||
| + | {|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1 | ||
| + | | '''BIRT:''' | ||
| + | | <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike> | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''DTP:''' | ||
| + | | Brian Fitzpatrick | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''DSDP:''' | ||
| + | | Doug Gaff | ||
| + | | Martin Oberhuber | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''Eclipse:''' | ||
| + | | <strike>Kevin Haaland</strike> | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''Modeling:''' | ||
| + | | Richard Gronback | ||
| + | | Ed Merks | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''RT:''' | ||
| + | | <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike> | ||
| + | | <strike>Jochen Krause</strike> | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''STP:''' | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''Technology:''' | ||
| + | | <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike> | ||
| + | | Wayne Beaton | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''Tools:''' | ||
| + | | <strike>John Duimovich</strike> | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''TPTP:''' | ||
| + | | Eugene Chan | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |- | ||
| + | | '''WTP:''' | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | | | ||
| + | |} | ||
* Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited. | * Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited. | ||
| − | ** '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, | + | ** '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue |
| − | ** '''Regrets:''' Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright | + | ** '''Regrets:''' Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Wenfeng Li, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright |
| + | ** '''No-Show:''' Doug Clarke, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Mike Milinkovich, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Mike Wilson | ||
<!-- | <!-- | ||
| − | * '''Signed-up:''' | + | * '''Signed-up:''' |
| − | * '''Regrets:''' | + | * '''Regrets:''' |
* '''No-Show:''' | * '''No-Show:''' | ||
* '''Unknown:''' | * '''Unknown:''' | ||
| − | + | ** Oliver Cole, Jochen Krause | |
| − | ** Oliver Cole | + | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
--> | --> | ||
| Line 34: | Line 78: | ||
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members | ||
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the [[Architecture Council/Membership]] charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the [[Architecture Council/Membership]] charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority | ||
| − | + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Everyone''' fill in your Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page -- all done now! | |
| − | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Everyone''' fill in your Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page -- done | + | |
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''All PMC's''' to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page - superseded by using the Portal, will enable us to set up queries | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''All PMC's''' to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page - superseded by using the Portal, will enable us to set up queries | ||
| − | * (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list | + | * (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January) |
| − | * (''old'') Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort | + | * (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals |
| + | ** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse | ||
| + | * (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort | ||
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] | * (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] | ||
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor | * (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor | ||
| Line 44: | Line 89: | ||
=== Administrative === | === Administrative === | ||
* '''New Members''': Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member) | * '''New Members''': Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member) | ||
| + | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> - everybody in favor of appointing Linda. '''AI Martin''' ask mike to appoint. | ||
| + | |||
* New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] | * New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] | ||
| − | |||
* '''AC Admin via the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]''' | * '''AC Admin via the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]''' | ||
| − | ** Enter Mentorship data on the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] - new AC component - will show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] as well as project homepages | + | ** '''AI All Mentors''' Enter Mentorship data on the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] - new AC component - will show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] as well as project homepages |
** {{bug|256318}} - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors) | ** {{bug|256318}} - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors) | ||
** {{bug|258085}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages | ** {{bug|258085}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages | ||
| Line 53: | Line 99: | ||
** {{bug|255383}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps | ** {{bug|255383}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps | ||
** {{bug|255385}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp | ** {{bug|255385}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp | ||
| + | ** Karl, Bjorn, Gabe (and sometimes Denis) working on the Portal | ||
** Should we retire the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages | ** Should we retire the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | * | + | * '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions: |
| − | + | ** IPZilla Infrastructure for "closed group" discussions should be completed soon. '''AI Mike''' inform all when it's in place. | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | * '''AC Website Revamp''' needed to make the information that's already there more consumable | |
| − | ** IPZilla | + | ** Who could revamp the [[Architecture Council]] page? - '''AI Dave Carver''' take a look |
| − | * AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable | + | |
| − | ** Who could revamp the [[Architecture Council]] page? | + | * '''PMC Representation''' on the AC |
| − | * PMC Representation on the AC | + | |
** Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction | ** Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction | ||
** Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage | ** Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage | ||
** Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings) | ** Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings) | ||
| − | ** BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep | + | ** BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep - '''AI Dave Carver''' to ask Dave W |
| + | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> everybody OK with requiring PMC attendance | ||
| + | |||
| + | === Mentorship === | ||
| + | * {{bug|256220}} Silverlight (SLDT), {{bug|256477}} STEM | ||
| + | ** Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough? | ||
| + | ** Wayne: Projects need to be interesting, so they should be able to attract a mentor... | ||
| + | ** Martin: AC should be responsive, each of us should feel responsible for answering requests timely. | ||
| + | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> '''Wayne''' volunteers to be the be the initial contact (at least partly) | ||
| + | * See [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] (or were grandfathered) - ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT - Wayne trying to encourage project find a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing a bug]. | ||
| + | ** Mass mailing likely won't help... at least as long as we don't have a pool of mentors just waiting to get mentors. So, for now, direct PMC interaction will likely help more. | ||
| + | ** '''AI Andrew Overholt''': file bug asking for mentors for linux distros! | ||
| + | ** '''AI All PMC's''' encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor | ||
| + | * Oisin says: by the time this call happens, I'll be a mentor on the Faceted Framework project, which is Konstantin's move from WTP. It's a little odd, because he has a lot more experience of working in Eclipse than I do :) Would it be useful in some cases to have a rider on the mentorship requirement for old hands starting with new projects? Maybe reduce the mentor count to one? Discuss. | ||
| + | ** Martin thinks: In my understanding, the idea of mentorship is getting a "second pair of eyes" on some things, as well as to foster communications across PMC / Technology boundaries (by means of the AC). If Kosta is more experienced than yourself, this just means that he won't need you that much to answer questions, and you'll likely not have to monitor his efforts a lot. But it's good to have the cross-project exposure by means of the two-mentor-requirement. | ||
| + | ** Ed: Reducing mentor count basically comes down to self-mentoring | ||
| + | ** Mentors are not necessarily ahead in the domain... they should help with the Eclipse Development Process | ||
| + | ** Workload: mentoring is not necessarily that much work (Ed), demand varies (Rich) | ||
| + | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> we agree to keep the 2-mentor requirement | ||
=== News from the EMO & Councils === | === News from the EMO & Councils === | ||
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome? | * Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome? | ||
| − | * Board Meeting Update, based on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00772.html Martin's AC update] | + | ** SWOT analysis done -- Don going to post meeting minutes; Board approved an USD 20.000 budget for improving the Release Train |
| + | ** Don going to call in for a StAC telecon meeting in January (or early february) in order to prioritize items how the money should be spent -- might be for Galileo or probably next year's train | ||
| + | ** If successful, this might become a recurring thing every year | ||
| + | * '''Board Meeting Update''', based on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00772.html Martin's AC update] | ||
** Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Foundation Minutes page] - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes" | ** Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Foundation Minutes page] - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes" | ||
| + | ** Doug Gaff: Board been happy with AC revival, less happy with technical items. Doug wants to work on an official response from the Board to the AC report | ||
| + | ** Bjorn: It might take some time until minutes are posted, but as soon as they are, they now show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/whatsnew.php Projects What's New] page and [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev-process-changes-atom.php RSS Feed] | ||
| + | ** Doug also going to blog the Board meeting | ||
=== New Topics === | === New Topics === | ||
| − | + | * '''Tom S: Project Proposals''' - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document | |
| − | + | ** Dave Carver: why cannot leverage the Wiki? - Make a Template Page on the Wiki (used for a couple proposals already) - '''AI Chris''' add | |
| − | * '''Tom: Project Proposals''' - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document | + | *** Dave Carver: Here are some examples of project proposals done using the wiki: [[EMF4Net Proposal]], [[XML_Security_Tools_Proposal]], [[WTP/XQuery/Proposal]], and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates information on creating templates]. The other thing to consider is standardizing the source format used for proposals. I know most people use Word, but would prefer a standard like ODT, or [http://www.docbook.org/ DocBook] for the final version. |
| − | * '''Tom: Best practice for picking up I-builds''' - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome | + | |
| + | |||
| + | * '''Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds''' - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome | ||
** Martin tried the [[Eclipse Project Update Sites]] with [[Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring]] and [http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/topic/org.eclipse.platform.doc.isv/guide/p2_director.html p2 Director] scripts to update, but found {{bug|258865}} (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), {{bug|258680}} (mirroring) and {{bug|258683}} (install) - currently not usable | ** Martin tried the [[Eclipse Project Update Sites]] with [[Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring]] and [http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/topic/org.eclipse.platform.doc.isv/guide/p2_director.html p2 Director] scripts to update, but found {{bug|258865}} (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), {{bug|258680}} (mirroring) and {{bug|258683}} (install) - currently not usable | ||
** Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now | ** Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now | ||
| + | ** Dave Carver using a script ("custom eclipse") on sourceforge - [http://ceb.sourceforge.net/ Custom Eclipse Builder] | ||
| + | ** Andrew Overholt: As part of Common Builder (CBI), looking at how to best get the bits | ||
** Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice? | ** Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice? | ||
| + | ** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> Wait until we have a best practice (by means of CBI, or p2, or a script) | ||
| + | |||
* '''Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC)''' asked: | * '''Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC)''' asked: | ||
** How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them? | ** How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them? | ||
| + | *** Bjorn, Wayne: It seems like Foundation does occasionally scan the repository | ||
** TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives | ** TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives | ||
| + | |||
* '''Martin: Duplication''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/m2eclipse m2eclipse] and [http://www.eclipse.org/iam IAM] for Maven | * '''Martin: Duplication''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/m2eclipse m2eclipse] and [http://www.eclipse.org/iam IAM] for Maven | ||
| + | ** Bjorn: Current philosophy is that it's fine to propose multiple projects -- encourage people to work together, but don't enforce it. When a project matures, there should be only. | ||
| + | ** '''AI Martin''' follow up with Brett Porter and the m2eclipse / iam projects | ||
| + | |||
* '''Martin: Architecture Diagrams''' - | * '''Martin: Architecture Diagrams''' - | ||
** Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication. | ** Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication. | ||
| Line 92: | Line 173: | ||
*** Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?) | *** Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?) | ||
*** Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords). | *** Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords). | ||
| + | ** '''AI Martin''' ask on mailing list | ||
=== Recent Discussions === | === Recent Discussions === | ||
* '''Dave Carver:''' [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] - Agile Project Management | * '''Dave Carver:''' [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] - Agile Project Management | ||
| − | |||
* '''Wayne:''' {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]] more authors needed? | * '''Wayne:''' {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]] more authors needed? | ||
| − | * | + | ** started with IP issues; participation from others wou |
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's]. | * Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's]. | ||
** {{bug|256660}} What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers? | ** {{bug|256660}} What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers? | ||
| − | ** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? | + | ** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion? |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
=== Old items === | === Old items === | ||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | * See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items | + | * See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items that were not discussed |
== Action Items == | == Action Items == | ||
| + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to inform Linda Chan about appointment, and ask Mike to appoint. | ||
| + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Andrew Overholt''' filed {{bug|258966}} asking for mentorship for Linux Distros | ||
| + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to ask WTP PMC about council representation | ||
| + | * '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] | ||
| + | * '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug]) | ||
| + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers | ||
| + | ** David Carver - Added Catagories for the Architecture Council, and moved content to it's own separate page. | ||
| + | * [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes | ||
| + | * '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use | ||
| + | * '''Martin''' to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication | ||
| + | * '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea | ||
| + | * '''Everyone''' pick dates for the January Meeting on [http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=yx9qa6hb8z2f28x9 Doodle Poll] | ||
== Next Meeting == | == Next Meeting == | ||
| − | * Can pick: '''Thursday Jan 8''' (2nd Thurs), or '''Tuesday Jan | + | * Can pick through [http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=yx9qa6hb8z2f28x9 Doodle poll]: '''Thursday Jan 8''' (2nd Thurs), or '''Tuesday Jan 13''', or '''Thursday Jan 15''' (3rd Thursday in January) |
| − | * [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes January | + | ** Update: '''Thu Jan 15''' was picked with 15 votes (Tue Jan 13: 12 votes, Thu Jan 8: 10 votes, total attendance: 19 votes) |
| + | ** [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes January 15 2009|Thursday, January 15, 2009]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | [[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]] | ||
Latest revision as of 06:59, 23 December 2008
| Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
| Date & Time: | Tuesday December 16, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin HTML |  iCal (schedule finding poll)
|
| Dial-in: | (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or 866.362.7064 (toll-free North America) passcode 464440# |
Contents
Attendees
| BIRT: | |
|
| DTP: | Brian Fitzpatrick | |
| DSDP: | Doug Gaff | Martin Oberhuber |
| Eclipse: | |
|
| Modeling: | Richard Gronback | Ed Merks |
| RT: | |
|
| STP: | ||
| Technology: | |
Wayne Beaton |
| Tools: | |
|
| TPTP: | Eugene Chan | |
| WTP: |
- Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
- Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
- Regrets: Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Wenfeng Li, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright
- No-Show: Doug Clarke, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Mike Milinkovich, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Mike Wilson
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Action Items
- Last meeting Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008#Action Items
-
Wayne bug 252015 "what you should know" -- Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging - Wayne to ask projects in need of a mentor file a bug against the AC
- Martin to send private E-Mails to dormant members
- Martin to update the Architecture Council/Membership charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
- Everyone fill in your Bio on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page -- all done now!
- All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors page - superseded by using the Portal, will enable us to set up queries
- (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
- (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
- While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
- (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
- (old) Everyone add to the Architecture Council/Links Collection
- (old) Martin to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
Administrative
- New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
- RESOLUTION - everybody in favor of appointing Linda. AI Martin ask mike to appoint.
- New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
- AC Admin via the Portal
- AI All Mentors Enter Mentorship data on the Portal - new AC component - will show up on the councils page as well as project homepages
- bug 256318 - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
- bug 258085 - councils page - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages
- bug 258096 - Request a "Biography URL" in the Portal
- bug 255383 - councils page doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps
- bug 255385 - councils page doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp
- Karl, Bjorn, Gabe (and sometimes Denis) working on the Portal
- Should we retire the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages
- IP/Legal Discussions: Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
- IPZilla Infrastructure for "closed group" discussions should be completed soon. AI Mike inform all when it's in place.
- AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable
- Who could revamp the Architecture Council page? - AI Dave Carver take a look
- PMC Representation on the AC
- Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction
- Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage
- Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings)
- BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep - AI Dave Carver to ask Dave W
- RESOLUTION everybody OK with requiring PMC attendance
Mentorship
- bug 256220 Silverlight (SLDT), bug 256477 STEM
- Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough?
- Wayne: Projects need to be interesting, so they should be able to attract a mentor...
- Martin: AC should be responsive, each of us should feel responsible for answering requests timely.
- RESOLUTION Wayne volunteers to be the be the initial contact (at least partly)
- See Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors (or were grandfathered) - ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT - Wayne trying to encourage project find a mentor (by filing a bug.
- Mass mailing likely won't help... at least as long as we don't have a pool of mentors just waiting to get mentors. So, for now, direct PMC interaction will likely help more.
- AI Andrew Overholt: file bug asking for mentors for linux distros!
- AI All PMC's encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor
- Oisin says: by the time this call happens, I'll be a mentor on the Faceted Framework project, which is Konstantin's move from WTP. It's a little odd, because he has a lot more experience of working in Eclipse than I do :) Would it be useful in some cases to have a rider on the mentorship requirement for old hands starting with new projects? Maybe reduce the mentor count to one? Discuss.
- Martin thinks: In my understanding, the idea of mentorship is getting a "second pair of eyes" on some things, as well as to foster communications across PMC / Technology boundaries (by means of the AC). If Kosta is more experienced than yourself, this just means that he won't need you that much to answer questions, and you'll likely not have to monitor his efforts a lot. But it's good to have the cross-project exposure by means of the two-mentor-requirement.
- Ed: Reducing mentor count basically comes down to self-mentoring
- Mentors are not necessarily ahead in the domain... they should help with the Eclipse Development Process
- Workload: mentoring is not necessarily that much work (Ed), demand varies (Rich)
- RESOLUTION we agree to keep the 2-mentor requirement
News from the EMO & Councils
- Don: StAC meeting at Eclipse World -- outcome?
- SWOT analysis done -- Don going to post meeting minutes; Board approved an USD 20.000 budget for improving the Release Train
- Don going to call in for a StAC telecon meeting in January (or early february) in order to prioritize items how the money should be spent -- might be for Galileo or probably next year's train
- If successful, this might become a recurring thing every year
- Board Meeting Update, based on Martin's AC update
- Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the Foundation Minutes page - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes"
- Doug Gaff: Board been happy with AC revival, less happy with technical items. Doug wants to work on an official response from the Board to the AC report
- Bjorn: It might take some time until minutes are posted, but as soon as they are, they now show up on the Projects What's New page and RSS Feed
- Doug also going to blog the Board meeting
New Topics
- Tom S: Project Proposals - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
- Dave Carver: why cannot leverage the Wiki? - Make a Template Page on the Wiki (used for a couple proposals already) - AI Chris add
- Dave Carver: Here are some examples of project proposals done using the wiki: EMF4Net Proposal, XML_Security_Tools_Proposal, WTP/XQuery/Proposal, and information on creating templates. The other thing to consider is standardizing the source format used for proposals. I know most people use Word, but would prefer a standard like ODT, or DocBook for the final version.
- Dave Carver: why cannot leverage the Wiki? - Make a Template Page on the Wiki (used for a couple proposals already) - AI Chris add
- Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
- Martin tried the Eclipse Project Update Sites with Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring and p2 Director scripts to update, but found bug 258865 (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), bug 258680 (mirroring) and bug 258683 (install) - currently not usable
- Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now
- Dave Carver using a script ("custom eclipse") on sourceforge - Custom Eclipse Builder
- Andrew Overholt: As part of Common Builder (CBI), looking at how to best get the bits
- Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice?
- RESOLUTION Wait until we have a best practice (by means of CBI, or p2, or a script)
- Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC) asked:
- How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them?
- Bjorn, Wayne: It seems like Foundation does occasionally scan the repository
- TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives
- How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them?
- Martin: Duplication - m2eclipse and IAM for Maven
- Bjorn: Current philosophy is that it's fine to propose multiple projects -- encourage people to work together, but don't enforce it. When a project matures, there should be only.
- AI Martin follow up with Brett Porter and the m2eclipse / iam projects
- Martin: Architecture Diagrams -
- Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
- It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
- Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
- Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
- Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
- Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
- AI Martin ask on mailing list
Recent Discussions
- Dave Carver: Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices - Agile Project Management
- Wayne: bug 252015 Here is something you should know, Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging more authors needed?
- started with IP issues; participation from others wou
- Denis' blog on dead bugzilla's.
- bug 256660 What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
- Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
Old items
- See also Architecture Council/Open Issues for overflow items that were not discussed
Action Items
- Martin to inform Linda Chan about appointment, and ask Mike to appoint.
- Andrew Overholt filed bug 258966 asking for mentorship for Linux Distros
- Dave Carver to ask WTP PMC about council representation
- All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
- All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
- Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
- David Carver - Added Catagories for the Architecture Council, and moved content to it's own separate page.
- Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes
- Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
- Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
- Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
- Everyone pick dates for the January Meeting on Doodle Poll
Next Meeting
- Can pick through Doodle poll: Thursday Jan 8 (2nd Thurs), or Tuesday Jan 13, or Thursday Jan 15 (3rd Thursday in January)
- Update: Thu Jan 15 was picked with 15 votes (Tue Jan 13: 12 votes, Thu Jan 8: 10 votes, total attendance: 19 votes)
- Architecture Council call on Thursday, January 15, 2009