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|-
 
|-
 
| Date & Time:  
 
| Date & Time:  
| Thursday [[December 11, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=11&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal]
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| Tuesday [[December 16, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=16&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal] ([http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=acbx8ith7ttbgvsr schedule finding poll])
 
|-
 
|-
 
| Dial-in:
 
| Dial-in:
 
| '''(+1) 613.287.8000''' (Ottawa and international) or<br>866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)<br>passcode '''464440#'''
 
| '''(+1) 613.287.8000''' (Ottawa and international) or<br>866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)<br>passcode '''464440#'''
 
|}
 
|}
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<br/>
 +
<hr/>
  
 
== Attendees ==
 
== Attendees ==
 +
{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 +
| '''BIRT:'''
 +
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''DTP:'''
 +
| Brian Fitzpatrick
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''DSDP:'''
 +
| Doug Gaff
 +
| Martin Oberhuber
 +
|-
 +
| '''Eclipse:'''
 +
| <strike>Kevin Haaland</strike>
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''Modeling:'''
 +
| Richard Gronback
 +
| Ed Merks
 +
|-
 +
| '''RT:'''
 +
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
 +
| <strike>Jochen Krause</strike>
 +
|-
 +
| '''STP:'''
 +
|
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''Technology:'''
 +
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
 +
| Wayne Beaton
 +
|-
 +
| '''Tools:'''
 +
| <strike>John Duimovich</strike>
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''TPTP:'''
 +
| Eugene Chan
 +
|
 +
|-
 +
| '''WTP:'''
 +
|
 +
|
 +
|}
 
* Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 
* Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 +
** '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
 +
** '''Regrets:''' Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Wenfeng Li, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright
 +
** '''No-Show:''' Doug Clarke, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Mike Milinkovich, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Mike Wilson
 
<!--
 
<!--
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
+
* '''Signed-up:'''  
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
+
* '''Regrets:'''  
 
* '''No-Show:'''  
 
* '''No-Show:'''  
 
* '''Unknown:'''  
 
* '''Unknown:'''  
** John Graham, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
+
** Oliver Cole, Jochen Krause
** Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, Mark Vandenbrink, John Wiegand
+
** Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Jochen Krause, Jeff McAffer
+
** Naci Dai, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Thomas Hallgren, Wenfeng Li, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, David Williams
+
 
-->
 
-->
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
* '''Feel free to edit, but <font color="red">not during the call!</font>'''
 
* '''Feel free to edit, but <font color="red">not during the call!</font>'''
 
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008#Action Items]]
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008#Action Items]]
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' {{bug|252015}} "what you should know" -- [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]]
* (''old'') Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' to ask projects in need of a mentor [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council file a bug] against the AC
* (''old'') Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' fill in your Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the [[Architecture Council/Membership]] charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Everyone''' fill in your Bio on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page -- all done now!
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''All PMC's''' to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page - superseded by using the Portal, will enable us to set up queries
 +
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list (committed until end January)
 +
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
 +
** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
 +
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
 
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]]
 
* (''old'') '''Everyone''' add to the [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]]
* (''old'') All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
 
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
* '''Wayne''' to start a Wiki page with proposed {{bug|252015}} "what you should know" snippets as well as a second page for snippet archive
 
* '''Wayne''' to ask projects in need of a mentor [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council file a bug] against the AC
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the AC charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
 
  
 
=== Administrative ===
 
=== Administrative ===
* New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
+
* '''New Members''': Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
* New Dormant Members - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
+
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> - everybody in favor of appointing Linda. '''AI Martin''' ask mike to appoint.
* Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
+
 
* Projects in need of Mentors
+
* New '''Dormant Members''' - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
** See [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]]: ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT -- '''AI File a Bug''' (best have the project file one), [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council use this link] for filing the bug. '''AI Wayne''' contact technology projects telling them to file the bug.
+
* '''AC Admin via the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]'''
* Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
+
** '''AI All Mentors''' Enter Mentorship data on the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] - new AC component - will show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] as well as project homepages
 +
** {{bug|256318}} - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
 +
** {{bug|258085}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages
 +
** {{bug|258096}} - Request a "Biography URL" in the Portal
 +
** {{bug|255383}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps
 +
** {{bug|255385}} - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp
 +
** Karl, Bjorn, Gabe (and sometimes Denis) working on the Portal
 +
** Should we retire the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages
 +
 
 +
* '''IP/Legal Discussions:''' Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
 +
** IPZilla Infrastructure for "closed group" discussions should be completed soon. '''AI Mike''' inform all when it's in place.
 +
 
 +
* '''AC Website Revamp''' needed to make the information that's already there more consumable
 +
** Who could revamp the [[Architecture Council]] page? - '''AI Dave Carver''' take a look
 +
 
 +
* '''PMC Representation''' on the AC
 +
** Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction
 +
** Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage
 +
** Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings)
 +
** BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep - '''AI Dave Carver''' to ask Dave W
 +
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> everybody OK with requiring PMC attendance
 +
 
 +
=== Mentorship ===
 +
* {{bug|256220}} Silverlight (SLDT), {{bug|256477}} STEM
 +
** Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough?
 +
** Wayne: Projects need to be interesting, so they should be able to attract a mentor...
 +
** Martin: AC should be responsive, each of us should feel responsible for answering requests timely.
 +
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> '''Wayne''' volunteers to be the be the initial contact (at least partly)
 +
* See [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] (or were grandfathered) - ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT - Wayne trying to encourage project find a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing a bug].
 +
** Mass mailing likely won't help... at least as long as we don't have a pool of mentors just waiting to get mentors. So, for now, direct PMC interaction will likely help more.
 +
** '''AI Andrew Overholt''': file bug asking for mentors for linux distros!
 +
** '''AI All PMC's''' encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor
 +
* Oisin says: by the time this call happens, I'll be a mentor on the Faceted Framework project, which is Konstantin's move from WTP. It's a little odd, because he has a lot more experience of working in Eclipse than I do :)  Would it be useful in some cases to have a rider on the mentorship requirement for old hands starting with new projects? Maybe reduce the mentor count to one?  Discuss.
 +
** Martin thinks: In my understanding, the idea of mentorship is getting a "second pair of eyes" on some things, as well as to foster communications across PMC / Technology boundaries (by means of the AC). If Kosta is more experienced than yourself, this just means that he won't need you that much to answer questions, and you'll likely not have to monitor his efforts a lot. But it's good to have the cross-project exposure by means of the two-mentor-requirement.
 +
** Ed: Reducing mentor count basically comes down to self-mentoring
 +
** Mentors are not necessarily ahead in the domain... they should help with the Eclipse Development Process
 +
** Workload: mentoring is not necessarily that much work (Ed), demand varies (Rich)
 +
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> we agree to keep the 2-mentor requirement
  
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome?
 
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome?
* {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
+
** SWOT analysis done -- Don going to post meeting minutes; Board approved an USD 20.000 budget for improving the Release Train
 +
** Don going to call in for a StAC telecon meeting in January (or early february) in order to prioritize items how the money should be spent -- might be for Galileo or probably next year's train
 +
** If successful, this might become a recurring thing every year
 +
* '''Board Meeting Update''', based on [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00772.html Martin's AC update]
 +
** Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/minutes.php Foundation Minutes page] - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes"
 +
** Doug Gaff: Board been happy with AC revival, less happy with technical items. Doug wants to work on an official response from the Board to the AC report
 +
** Bjorn: It might take some time until minutes are posted, but as soon as they are, they now show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/whatsnew.php Projects What's New] page and [http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev-process-changes-atom.php RSS Feed]
 +
** Doug also going to blog the Board meeting
  
=== Recent Discussions ===
+
=== New Topics ===
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's].
+
* '''Tom S: Project Proposals''' - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
** What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
+
** Dave Carver: why cannot leverage the Wiki? - Make a Template Page on the Wiki (used for a couple proposals already) - '''AI Chris''' add
** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects?
+
*** Dave Carver: Here are some examples of project proposals done using the wiki: [[EMF4Net Proposal]], [[XML_Security_Tools_Proposal]], [[WTP/XQuery/Proposal]], and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates information on creating templates]. The other thing to consider is standardizing the source format used for proposals. I know most people use Word, but would prefer a standard like ODT, or [http://www.docbook.org/ DocBook] for the final version.
** Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
+
* [https://www.eclipsecon.org/submissions/2009/view_talk.php?id=527 EclipseCon panel]
+
** Who wants to participate on the panel, or be a moderator? - Bjorn, zx, Wayne, Mik, Markus, '''Jeff''', '''Ed'''
+
** [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] ideas for questions to discuss
+
* [[Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009]] - sign up and add to the agenda
+
* {{bug|256448}} API Tooling for extensions / How to treat propertyTester properties in ISV docs (best practice searched)
+
* {{bug|167144}} "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
+
* {{bug|253889}} JIRA vs bugzilla - just close it?
+
* {{bug|249371}} The new [http://www.eclipse.org Eclipse.org homepage]
+
* {{bug|249959}} Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
+
* {{bug|249745}} Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse); Mercurial, Git Bazaar
+
* {{bug|246840}} Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC?
+
* {{bug|246945}} Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)
+
  
== Old items ==
 
* EMO: {{bug|250317}} How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
 
* '''RC - Roadmap Process''': [[RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities]] - are we happy with it?
 
* '''PC''' - Richard Gronback: '''New [[Galileo]] Requirements''' from the Planning Council?
 
** Must do: Use only Published API by M6
 
** Must do: Provide basic Capability / Activity Definitions by M6
 
** Must do: Use Babel by M6
 
  
=== How to start Releng? ===
+
* '''Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds''' - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
* [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00578.html How to start a releng project for unattended builds] on the ML - PDE build docs are good but only half the story
+
** Martin tried the [[Eclipse Project Update Sites]] with [[Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring]] and [http://help.eclipse.org/ganymede/topic/org.eclipse.platform.doc.isv/guide/p2_director.html p2 Director] scripts to update, but found {{bug|258865}} (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), {{bug|258680}} (mirroring) and {{bug|258683}} (install) - currently not usable
** Bjorn, NickB & Denis CBI [[Build Workshop 3: Build Hard With A Purpose]] but is that an answer for now? Current status?
+
** Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now
** CBI being adopted by Paul Webster for e4
+
** Dave Carver using a script ("custom eclipse") on sourceforge - [http://ceb.sourceforge.net/ Custom Eclipse Builder]
** Refer people to clone existing projects' releng? Which ones are good?
+
** Andrew Overholt: As part of Common Builder (CBI), looking at how to best get the bits
 +
** Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice?
 +
** <font color="green">'''RESOLUTION'''</font> Wait until we have a best practice (by means of CBI, or p2, or a script)
  
=== Top Ten Recommendations ===
+
* '''Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC)''' asked:
* [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations]] - should we start sorting them?
+
** How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them?
* [[Architecture Council/Links Collection]] - want more, more, more!
+
*** Bjorn, Wayne: It seems like Foundation does occasionally scan the repository
 +
** TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives
  
=== Relationship to [[E4]] ===
+
* '''Martin: Duplication''' - [http://www.eclipse.org/m2eclipse m2eclipse] and [http://www.eclipse.org/iam IAM] for Maven
* [[E4/Pervasive Themes]] - Performance, Memory Footprint, [http://borisoneclipse.blogspot.com/2008/10/avoiding-bloat.html Bloat (Boris' Blog)], Concurrency
+
** Bjorn: Current philosophy is that it's fine to propose multiple projects -- encourage people to work together, but don't enforce it. When a project matures, there should be only.
* Invite E4 to present to the EAC?
+
** '''AI Martin''' follow up with Brett Porter and the m2eclipse / iam projects
  
=== Concurrency ===
+
* '''Martin: Architecture Diagrams''' -  
* Examples: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=245573#c12 bug 245573 comment 12] (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); {{bug|246840}} discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
+
** Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
* What is causing issues?
+
** It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
** work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
+
** Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
** work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
+
*** Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
** General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
+
*** Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
** Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
+
*** Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
** Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of [[E4]] ?
+
** '''AI Martin''' ask on mailing list
*** [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-incubator-e4-dev/msg00615.html David Orme] mentions DataBinding Realms and the [http://fpgacomputing.blogspot.com/2008/08/threads-considered-harmful-for-same.html Threads Considered Harmful] blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
+
*** Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
+
*** Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
+
** Better Javadoc ?
+
*** Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
+
** Articles ? - John referenced the [http://www.eclipse.org/articles/Article-Resource-deltas/resource-deltas.html#1d resource-deltas] article
+
  
===Mentoring New Projects===
+
=== Recent Discussions ===
* We need more Architecture Council members to step up and become project mentors
+
* '''Dave Carver:''' [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] - Agile Project Management
** New projects require two mentors (a Good Thing&trade;)
+
* '''Wayne:''' {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]] more authors needed?
* How do new projects find/attract a mentor?
+
** started with IP issues; participation from others wou
** Mailing list, bugzilla?
+
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's].
** "Work the crowd"
+
** {{bug|256660}} What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
* Experiences?
+
** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects? Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
** What could be improved?
+
** Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?
+
  
=== Other Ideas for Discussion ===
+
=== Old items ===
* '''Mentoring Galileo''': What could be improved?
+
** Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
+
** Don't duplicate work done by the [[Planning Council]]
+
** '''Integrated bug reporting''': Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers {{bug|212209}} (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ).  Do we want this for Galileo?
+
  
* [[E4]] now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
+
* See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items that were not discussed
 
+
* '''Eclipse Pain Points'''
+
** Performance & Memory Footprint, Bloat
+
** Restrictions on Resource model (Maven)
+
** IP due diligence and the processes around it
+
** Lots of these issues are already worked on by E4, and/or Committer Representatives at the Board, and/or the Planning Council
+
** But the EAC's charter includes identifying and naming pain pionts... anything not yet being addressed?
+
*** Re-activate [[Top Ten Architectural Problems in all of Eclipse]] ?
+
*** Re-activate [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]] ?
+
** What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it (I started writing a little RCP-Application) which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
+
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to inform Linda Chan about appointment, and ask Mike to appoint.
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Andrew Overholt''' filed {{bug|258966}} asking for mentorship for Linux Distros
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to ask WTP PMC about council representation
 +
* '''All Mentors''' to enter their mentorship info into the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal]
 +
* '''All PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council filing an AC bug])
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''' to have a look at the [[Architecture Council]] Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
 +
** David Carver - Added Catagories for the Architecture Council, and moved content to it's own separate page.
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave Carver''', '''Chris''' to add links for ''Project Proposal Template'' and ''Pulling Eclipse Scripts'' into the meeting notes
 +
* '''Mike''' to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
 +
* '''Martin''' to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
 +
* '''Martin''' to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
 +
* '''Everyone''' pick dates for the January Meeting on [http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=yx9qa6hb8z2f28x9 Doodle Poll]
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
* [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes January 8 2008|Thursday, January 8]]
+
* Can pick through [http://www.doodle.com/participation.html?pollId=yx9qa6hb8z2f28x9 Doodle poll]: '''Thursday Jan 8''' (2nd Thurs), or '''Tuesday Jan 13''', or '''Thursday Jan 15''' (3rd Thursday in January)
 +
** Update: '''Thu Jan 15''' was picked with 15 votes (Tue Jan 13: 12 votes, Thu Jan 8: 10 votes, total attendance: 19 votes)
 +
** [[Architecture Council]] call on [[Architecture Council/Minutes January 15 2009|Thursday, January 15, 2009]]
 +
 
 +
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]

Latest revision as of 06:59, 23 December 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Tuesday December 16, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal (schedule finding poll)
Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
passcode 464440#



Attendees

BIRT: Wenfeng Li
DTP: Brian Fitzpatrick
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Kevin Haaland
Modeling: Richard Gronback Ed Merks
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
STP:
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: John Duimovich
TPTP: Eugene Chan
WTP:
  • Use the Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See this message for how to use it. All AC Members are invited.
    • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, David Carver, Bjorn Freeman-Benson, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Mark Vandenbrink, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
    • Regrets: Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Wenfeng Li, Georg Schmidt, Karsten Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Darin Wright
    • No-Show: Doug Clarke, John Graham, Mik Kersten, Mike Milinkovich, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Mike Wilson

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

Administrative

  • New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
    • RESOLUTION - everybody in favor of appointing Linda. AI Martin ask mike to appoint.
  • New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • AC Admin via the Portal
    • AI All Mentors Enter Mentorship data on the Portal - new AC component - will show up on the councils page as well as project homepages
    • bug 256318 - Need a page that lists projects and mentors for further processing (query for projects without mentors)
    • bug 258085 - councils page - hyperlink mentored projects against projects' home pages
    • bug 258096 - Request a "Biography URL" in the Portal
    • bug 255383 - councils page doesn't show company affiliation for PMC reps
    • bug 255385 - councils page doesn't show PMC reps for Modeling, Birt, Stp
    • Karl, Bjorn, Gabe (and sometimes Denis) working on the Portal
    • Should we retire the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page? - Not entirely, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB, and mentorship for proposed projects won't show up; don't want to do double bookkeeping in the long run, but for now please update both pages
  • IP/Legal Discussions: Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
    • IPZilla Infrastructure for "closed group" discussions should be completed soon. AI Mike inform all when it's in place.
  • AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable
  • PMC Representation on the AC
    • Up to now, the AC meetings are totally voluntary, offline interaction is as good as direct interaction
    • Martin would like to ask PMC Reps either attend the meetings or send a designated delegate (might be another appointed member), in order to ensure full coverage
    • Create a table per PMC on the meeting notes (similar to the Board meetings)
    • BIRT, WTP, Tools currently don't have an active official rep - AI Dave Carver to ask Dave W
    • RESOLUTION everybody OK with requiring PMC attendance

Mentorship

  • bug 256220 Silverlight (SLDT), bug 256477 STEM
    • Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough?
    • Wayne: Projects need to be interesting, so they should be able to attract a mentor...
    • Martin: AC should be responsive, each of us should feel responsible for answering requests timely.
    • RESOLUTION Wayne volunteers to be the be the initial contact (at least partly)
  • See Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors (or were grandfathered) - ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT - Wayne trying to encourage project find a mentor (by filing a bug.
    • Mass mailing likely won't help... at least as long as we don't have a pool of mentors just waiting to get mentors. So, for now, direct PMC interaction will likely help more.
    • AI Andrew Overholt: file bug asking for mentors for linux distros!
    • AI All PMC's encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor
  • Oisin says: by the time this call happens, I'll be a mentor on the Faceted Framework project, which is Konstantin's move from WTP. It's a little odd, because he has a lot more experience of working in Eclipse than I do :) Would it be useful in some cases to have a rider on the mentorship requirement for old hands starting with new projects? Maybe reduce the mentor count to one? Discuss.
    • Martin thinks: In my understanding, the idea of mentorship is getting a "second pair of eyes" on some things, as well as to foster communications across PMC / Technology boundaries (by means of the AC). If Kosta is more experienced than yourself, this just means that he won't need you that much to answer questions, and you'll likely not have to monitor his efforts a lot. But it's good to have the cross-project exposure by means of the two-mentor-requirement.
    • Ed: Reducing mentor count basically comes down to self-mentoring
    • Mentors are not necessarily ahead in the domain... they should help with the Eclipse Development Process
    • Workload: mentoring is not necessarily that much work (Ed), demand varies (Rich)
    • RESOLUTION we agree to keep the 2-mentor requirement

News from the EMO & Councils

  • Don: StAC meeting at Eclipse World -- outcome?
    • SWOT analysis done -- Don going to post meeting minutes; Board approved an USD 20.000 budget for improving the Release Train
    • Don going to call in for a StAC telecon meeting in January (or early february) in order to prioritize items how the money should be spent -- might be for Galileo or probably next year's train
    • If successful, this might become a recurring thing every year
  • Board Meeting Update, based on Martin's AC update
    • Confidential until the Board Meeting minutes are posted on the Foundation Minutes page - navigated from Eclipse homepage by "About us" > "Foundation" > "Meeting Minutes"
    • Doug Gaff: Board been happy with AC revival, less happy with technical items. Doug wants to work on an official response from the Board to the AC report
    • Bjorn: It might take some time until minutes are posted, but as soon as they are, they now show up on the Projects What's New page and RSS Feed
    • Doug also going to blog the Board meeting

New Topics

  • Tom S: Project Proposals - What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document


  • Tom S: Best practice for picking up I-builds - HTTP downloads are slow, installation cumbersome
    • Martin tried the Eclipse Project Update Sites with Equinox p2 Repository Mirroring and p2 Director scripts to update, but found bug 258865 (invalid 3.5-I-builds repository), bug 258680 (mirroring) and bug 258683 (install) - currently not usable
    • Using SSH / SCP with some scripts for installation from the ZIPs right now
    • Dave Carver using a script ("custom eclipse") on sourceforge - Custom Eclipse Builder
    • Andrew Overholt: As part of Common Builder (CBI), looking at how to best get the bits
    • Should the AC host a page with a recommended best practice?
    • RESOLUTION Wait until we have a best practice (by means of CBI, or p2, or a script)
  • Christian Kurzke (TmL project, DSDP PMC) asked:
    • How do other projects maintain an IP-clean repository? Does anybody perform regular Black Duck scans? Should the Eclipse Foundation do them?
      • Bjorn, Wayne: It seems like Foundation does occasionally scan the repository
    • TmL team does them based on previous Motorola use, but sees lots of effort in sorting out false positives
  • Martin: Duplication - m2eclipse and IAM for Maven
    • Bjorn: Current philosophy is that it's fine to propose multiple projects -- encourage people to work together, but don't enforce it. When a project matures, there should be only.
    • AI Martin follow up with Brett Porter and the m2eclipse / iam projects
  • Martin: Architecture Diagrams -
    • Eclipse is growing rapidly, and it's getting ever harder to understand what projects are available, how they are interrelated and where there is duplication.
    • It was the original AC charter to create an architecture plan
    • Can we auto-generate an architecture diagram? - Some ideas:
      • Scan the project's web pages and CVS Repository and build a semantic web
      • Analyze the MANIFEST.MF dependencies in each project's repository HEAD, generate a dependency graph out of it and use some graph layout / clustering algorithm (could we allow interactive zooming into clusters?)
      • Define some keywords, and ask each project use the Portal to pick keywords that are relevant for their project. Based on keyword association, have some graph auto-generated (clustered by keywords).
    • AI Martin ask on mailing list

Recent Discussions

Old items

Action Items

  • Ok green.gif Martin to inform Linda Chan about appointment, and ask Mike to appoint.
  • Ok green.gif Andrew Overholt filed bug 258966 asking for mentorship for Linux Distros
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver to ask WTP PMC about council representation
  • All Mentors to enter their mentorship info into the Portal
  • All PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects ask for a mentor (by filing an AC bug)
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver to have a look at the Architecture Council Wiki page and visually improve it for users/consumers
    • David Carver - Added Catagories for the Architecture Council, and moved content to it's own separate page.
  • Ok green.gif Dave Carver, Chris to add links for Project Proposal Template and Pulling Eclipse Scripts into the meeting notes
  • Mike to inform everyone when the IPZilla Legal Closed Group is ready to use
  • Martin to follow up with the m2eclipse and IAM projects regarding duplication
  • Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • Everyone pick dates for the January Meeting on Doodle Poll

Next Meeting

  • Can pick through Doodle poll: Thursday Jan 8 (2nd Thurs), or Tuesday Jan 13, or Thursday Jan 15 (3rd Thursday in January)