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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Minutes December 16 2008"

(Other Ideas for Discussion)
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| Thursday [[December 11, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=11&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal]
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| Tuesday [[December 16, 2008]] at [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2008&month=12&day=16&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin]<br>[[Image:Html.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Canada/Toronto HTML] | [[Image:Ical.gif]][http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/g30r6idsq3rsufe2j3t6k0l0g4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics iCal]
 
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* Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 
* Use the [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Attendance Tracking Poll] to confirm attendance or send regrets for this meeting. See [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-architecture-council/msg00689.html this message] for how to use it. All [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors|AC Members]] are invited.
 
<!--
 
<!--
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Martin Oberhuber, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
+
* '''Signed-up:''' Martin Oberhuber, Tom Schindl,  
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
+
* '''Regrets:''' Sven Efftinge
 
* '''No-Show:'''  
 
* '''No-Show:'''  
 
* '''Unknown:'''  
 
* '''Unknown:'''  
 +
** Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Wayne "Mad Dog" Beaton, Boris Bokowski, David Carver, Eugene Chan, Brian Fitzpatrick, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Bernd Kolb (to proxy Karsten Schmidt), Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson
 +
** Oliver Cole, Doug Gaff, Richard Gronback, Oisin Hurley, Mike Milinkovich, Georg Schmidt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Darin Wright
 
** John Graham, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
 
** John Graham, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
 
** Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, Mark Vandenbrink, John Wiegand
 
** Timothy deBoer, John Duimovich, Mark Vandenbrink, John Wiegand
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=== Review of Action Items ===
 
=== Review of Action Items ===
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008#Action Items]]
 
* Last meeting [[Architecture Council/Minutes November 13 2008#Action Items]]
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' {{bug|252015}} "what you should know" -- [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]]
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Wayne''' to ask projects in need of a mentor [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council file a bug] against the AC
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members
 +
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the [[Architecture Council/Membership]] charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
 +
* '''Everyone''' who's at ESE think about discussion items, and fill the [[Architecture Council/F2F ESE 2008]] Agenda page
 +
* '''Everyone''' please use [http://www.doodle.com/dr57tu3fxcwm6s79 Doodle Poll] to send regrets for next meeting if you cannot come
 
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
 
* (''old'') Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
 
* (''old'') Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
 
* (''old'') Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
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* (''old'') All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
 
* (''old'') All PMC's to list mentor-less projects in their domain on the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]] page: Wayne for Technology, McQ for Eclipse, Ed for Modeling, Tom for RT; WTP to add ATF to the page
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to start a Wiki page explaining what's good about having a mentor
* '''Wayne''' to start a Wiki page with proposed {{bug|252015}} "what you should know" snippets as well as a second page for snippet archive
 
* '''Wayne''' to ask projects in need of a mentor [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council file a bug] against the AC
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to send private E-Mails to dormant members
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to update the AC charter for new member proposals, mentioning phone decision fallback in case of missing +1 majority
 
  
 
=== Administrative ===
 
=== Administrative ===
 
* New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
 
* New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
 
* New Dormant Members - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
 
* New Dormant Members - see [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]]
* Some Bio's still not filled in: Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
+
* Some Bio's still not filled in: Doug Clarke, Sven Efftinge, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Thomas Watson, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
 +
** '''Just click on your red link''' to create a page -- it can't be simpler!
 +
** Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
 
* Projects in need of Mentors
 
* Projects in need of Mentors
 +
** {{bug|256220}} Silverlight (SLDT), {{bug|256477}} STEM
 +
** Bugs been open for some time, is our process good enough?
 
** See [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]]: ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT -- '''AI File a Bug''' (best have the project file one), [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council use this link] for filing the bug. '''AI Wayne''' contact technology projects telling them to file the bug.
 
** See [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors#Projects that need mentors]]: ACTF, Aperi, Apogee (Dave Carver), COSMOS, PDT -- '''AI File a Bug''' (best have the project file one), [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community&component=Architecture%20Council use this link] for filing the bug. '''AI Wayne''' contact technology projects telling them to file the bug.
 +
* '''Enter Mentorship data''' on the [http://portal.eclipse.org Portal] - new AC component - will show up on the [http://www.eclipse.org/org/foundation/council.php#architecture councils page] as well as project homepages
 +
** Should we retire the [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] page? - No, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB
 +
** Request "mentored projects" hyperlinks on the councils page; Biography hyperlinks on the councils page?
 +
** Have a query for projects without mentors
 
* Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
 
* Janet's [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse.org-committers/msg00695.html E-Mail] asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
 +
** IPZilla update (Mike) ?
 +
* AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable
  
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
=== News from the EMO & Councils ===
 
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome?
 
* Don: '''StAC meeting at Eclipse World''' -- outcome?
* {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, can we start implementing it? who will back it?
+
* {{bug|252015}} Here is something you should know, [[Architecture Council/Things Committers Should Know/Staging]] more authors needed?
  
 
=== Recent Discussions ===
 
=== Recent Discussions ===
 +
* '''Tom:''' What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
 +
* '''Patterns''' idea picked up by 2 Eclipsecon Tutorials -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]]
 
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's].
 
* Denis' [http://eclipsewebmaster.blogspot.com/2008/11/why-users-dont-bother-to-file-bug.html blog on dead bugzilla's].
** What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
+
** {{bug|256660}} What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
 
** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects?
 
** Should it be added as advice for mentored projects?
 
** Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
 
** Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
 
* [https://www.eclipsecon.org/submissions/2009/view_talk.php?id=527 EclipseCon panel]
 
* [https://www.eclipsecon.org/submissions/2009/view_talk.php?id=527 EclipseCon panel]
** Who wants to participate on the panel, or be a moderator? - Bjorn, zx, Wayne, Mik, Markus, '''Jeff''', '''Ed'''
 
 
** [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] ideas for questions to discuss
 
** [[Architecture Council/Ask the AC]] ideas for questions to discuss
* [[Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009]] - sign up and add to the agenda
+
** Who wants to participate on the panel, or be a moderator? - Bjorn, zx, Wayne, Mik, Markus, '''Jeff''', '''Ed'''
 +
* [[Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009]] - Sunday afternoon - sign up and add to the agenda
 
* {{bug|256448}} API Tooling for extensions / How to treat propertyTester properties in ISV docs (best practice searched)
 
* {{bug|256448}} API Tooling for extensions / How to treat propertyTester properties in ISV docs (best practice searched)
 
* {{bug|167144}} "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
 
* {{bug|167144}} "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
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* {{bug|249371}} The new [http://www.eclipse.org Eclipse.org homepage]
 
* {{bug|249371}} The new [http://www.eclipse.org Eclipse.org homepage]
 
* {{bug|249959}} Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
 
* {{bug|249959}} Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
* {{bug|249745}} Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse); Mercurial, Git Bazaar
+
* {{bug|249745}} Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse); Mercurial, Git Bazaar -- {{bug|257706}} now requesting git specifically
* {{bug|246840}} Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded - what is CCRC?
+
* {{bug|246840}} Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded?
 
* {{bug|246945}} Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)
 
* {{bug|246945}} Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)
  
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*** Re-activate [[Top Ten Architectural Problems in all of Eclipse]] ?
 
*** Re-activate [[Top Ten Architectural Problems in all of Eclipse]] ?
 
*** Re-activate [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]] ?
 
*** Re-activate [[Architecture Council Discovery and Reuse Activity]] ?
** What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
 
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==

Revision as of 08:50, 9 December 2008

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Tuesday December 16, 2008 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: (+1) 613.287.8000 (Ottawa and international) or
866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)
passcode 464440#

Attendees

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Action Items

Administrative

  • New Members: Linda Chan, Sven Efftinge (new Strategic Member)
  • New Dormant Members - see Architecture Council/Members and Mentors
  • Some Bio's still not filled in: Doug Clarke, Sven Efftinge, Philippe Mulet, Steve Northover, Brett Porter, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Thomas Watson, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Gary Xue
    • Just click on your red link to create a page -- it can't be simpler!
    • Bjorn (and some others) to become dormant?
  • Projects in need of Mentors
  • Enter Mentorship data on the Portal - new AC component - will show up on the councils page as well as project homepages
    • Should we retire the Architecture Council/Members and Mentors page? - No, 'cause the "dormant" status cannot be tracked in foundation DB
    • Request "mentored projects" hyperlinks on the councils page; Biography hyperlinks on the councils page?
    • Have a query for projects without mentors
  • Janet's E-Mail asking PMC's and AC to answer IP/Legal related questions:
    • IPZilla update (Mike) ?
  • AC Website Revamp needed to make the information that's already there more consumable

News from the EMO & Councils

Recent Discussions

  • Tom: What can be done to streamline project proposals even more ... we could provide Tooling for it. I started writing a little RCP-Application which defines an Ecore-Model of required information and provides a UI to enter the data and produce the Review Document
  • Patterns idea picked up by 2 Eclipsecon Tutorials -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns
  • Denis' blog on dead bugzilla's.
    • bug 256660 What are best practices to keep bugzilla alive and users interested, without taking away too much time from committers?
    • Should it be added as advice for mentored projects?
    • Should the AC engage in the public discussion?
  • EclipseCon panel
    • Architecture Council/Ask the AC ideas for questions to discuss
    • Who wants to participate on the panel, or be a moderator? - Bjorn, zx, Wayne, Mik, Markus, Jeff, Ed
  • Architecture Council/F2F EclipseCon 2009 - Sunday afternoon - sign up and add to the agenda
  • bug 256448 API Tooling for extensions / How to treat propertyTester properties in ISV docs (best practice searched)
  • bug 167144 "eclipse.common" bundle -- Bundle / Project granularity?
  • bug 253889 JIRA vs bugzilla - just close it?
  • bug 249371 The new Eclipse.org homepage
  • bug 249959 Copyright Header in checked-in generated artifacts
  • bug 249745 Repository Best Practices (Subversive vs Subclipse); Mercurial, Git Bazaar -- bug 257706 now requesting git specifically
  • bug 246840 Jobs and ISchedulingRules - discussion concluded?
  • bug 246945 Interfacing with Libs that are not EPL Compatible (mostly LGPL)

Old items

  • EMO: bug 250317 How to officially communicate Requirements (as per the board, dev process, IP policy...) to the PMCs, Project Leads, Committers?
  • RC - Roadmap Process: RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities - are we happy with it?
  • PC - Richard Gronback: New Galileo Requirements from the Planning Council?
    • Must do: Use only Published API by M6
    • Must do: Provide basic Capability / Activity Definitions by M6
    • Must do: Use Babel by M6

How to start Releng?

Top Ten Recommendations

Relationship to E4

Concurrency

  • Examples: bug 245573 comment 12 (Dali JPA Tools Deadlock, John CC'd to EAC); bug 246840 discussion about ISchedulingRule (saving project preferences)
  • What is causing issues?
    • work performed during class loading (Activator.start()) - unknown context, can run at unpredictable times
    • work performed in callbacks - unknown context, avoid synchronous callbacks
    • General recommendations: (e.g. avoid synchronous callbacks, avoid in Activator.start(), static initializers or Singleton getters) - a general recommendation could be to avoid performing work at unpredictable times, but that would recommend against lazy initialization in general
    • Does anybody have a well-working, consistent model on top of the current infrastructure?
    • Totally new concurrency mechanism as part of E4 ?
      • David Orme mentions DataBinding Realms and the Threads Considered Harmful blog which references Erlang message-based concurrence
      • Would it help to become more asynchronous under the hood, even if old APIs need to remain for compatibility?
      • Are there any other good known models for concurrency?
    • Better Javadoc ?
      • Example: ISchedulingRule.isConflicting() vs. ISchedulingRule.contains(), and how does it relate to RuleFactory and MultiRule?
    • Articles ? - John referenced the resource-deltas article

Mentoring New Projects

  • We need more Architecture Council members to step up and become project mentors
    • New projects require two mentors (a Good Thing™)
  • How do new projects find/attract a mentor?
    • Mailing list, bugzilla?
    • "Work the crowd"
  • Experiences?
    • What could be improved?
    • Webpage improvements: more pre-canned content for new projects (like Sourceforge)?

Other Ideas for Discussion

  • Mentoring Galileo: What could be improved?
    • Running each project's unittests with full Galileo installed; especially interesting for Performance tests
    • Don't duplicate work done by the Planning Council
    • Integrated bug reporting: Mylyn is providing a bug/error/enhancement reporting facility that will provide a flexible and product-configurable mapping between features, bundles and bug trackers bug 212209 (Example: http://wiki.eclipse.org/images/8/86/Mylyn-Bug-Reporting-Example.jpg ). Do we want this for Galileo?
  • E4 now has bi-weekly calls -- won't discuss E4 on the EAC unless asked / invited
  • Eclipse Pain Points

Action Items

Next Meeting