Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/September 15 2011"

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(Attendees)
Line 17: Line 17:
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
 
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
| Gary Xue
+
| <strike>Gary Xue</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DTP:'''
 
| '''DTP:'''
 
| Brian Payton
 
| Brian Payton
| Linda Chan
+
| <strike>Linda Chan</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
| Mike Wilson
+
| <strike>Mike Wilson</strike>
 
| John Arthorne<br/>Boris Bokowski
 
| John Arthorne<br/>Boris Bokowski
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
| Ed Merks
+
| <strike>Ed Merks</strike>
| Cédric Brun<br/>Sven Efftinge
+
| <strike>Cédric Brun</strike><br/><strike>Sven Efftinge</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Mylyn:'''
 
| '''Mylyn:'''
| Steffen Pingel
+
| <strike>Steffen Pingel</strike>
| Mik Kersten
+
| <strike>Mik Kersten</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
| Jeff McAffer
+
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
| Tom Watson
+
| <strike>Tom Watson</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''SOA:'''
 
| '''SOA:'''
Line 44: Line 44:
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''
 
| '''Technology:'''
| Gunnar Wagenknecht
+
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
| Wayne Beaton
+
| <strike>Wayne Beaton</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Tools:'''
 
| '''Tools:'''
Line 57: Line 57:
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| Chuck Bridgham
 
| Chuck Bridgham
| Dave Carver<br/>Neil Hauge
+
| <strike>Dave Carver</strike><br/><strike>Neil Hauge</strike>
 
|}
 
|}
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Andrew Overholt (vacation)
 
  
 
<b><font color="red">RESCHEDULED CALL from Sep 8 to Sep 15 to avoid conflict with Eclipsecon PC meeting.</font></b>
 
<b><font color="red">RESCHEDULED CALL from Sep 8 to Sep 15 to avoid conflict with Eclipsecon PC meeting.</font></b>
  
<!--
+
* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Chuck Bridgham, Christian Campo, Kim Moir, Adrian Mos, Martin O, Brian Payton, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, David Williams,
* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Achim Loerke, Ed Merks, Kim Moir, Martin O, Andrew Overholt, Brian Payton, Steffen Pingel, Mary Ruddy
+
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Andrew Overholt (vacation), Mike Wilson (conflict)
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Christian Campo (conflict)
+
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Achim Loerke, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Andrew Overholt, Steffen Pingel, Pascal Rapicault, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Tom Watson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Boris Bokowski, Nick Boldt, Chuck Bridgham, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Adrian Mos, Pascal Rapicault, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Tom Watson, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue
+
-->
+
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
Line 75: Line 71:
 
=== Review of Last Meeting  ===
 
=== Review of Last Meeting  ===
  
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/August 112011]]
+
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/August 11 2011]]
 
*Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]]  
 
*Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]]  
  
 
=== New Topics ===
 
=== New Topics ===
  
 +
==== '''Welcome to Adrian Mos (SOA PMC)''' ====
 +
* Xerox; on SOA PMC since its inception; interested in SOA, editors, runtimes, ...
 +
* SOA is a transformation of the older STP TLP, some companies dropped off during transition...
 +
* still through rough times, but getting new proposals from Stardust / BPM2, getting fresh codebase...
 +
* Sopera now especially interested in Runtimes, eg Swordfish
  
=== General Topics ===
+
==== '''{{bug|354756}} Remove direct Eclipse signing requirement ====
 
+
* '''{{bug|354756}} Remove direct Eclipse signing requirement'''
* Updates from the Board
+
** Idea is to not require an Eclipse.org certificate but allow any trusted / validated key in order to
* git @ Eclipse progress
+
** One reason for signing was that at Install time, Eclipse UI warns about unsigned content (to ensure trustworthy source)
* Maven @ Eclipse progress
+
** In the runtime area, signing is probably not that important since no Eclipse UI is used
* AC Backlog
+
** Mary: With everything going a lot more connected / online, signing is getting more important... should not preclude evolving into a more decentralized approach
 
+
*** (Higgins is all about how to establish trust in a decentralized, networked way)
=== Old Topics ===
+
** Martin: "What kind of trust would be good enough" if we allow "any trusted key" instead of the Eclipse.org key
* Henrik Lindberg ESE proceedings are now online [[WhatIsInABuildESE2010]]
+
** Martin: Single additional step in the ladder of trust, eg require a signer's key to be signed with the Eclipse.org key ?
** '''AI zx''' Create Indigo report
+
*** Mary: need more infrastructure than mere delegation to ensure a bad actor doesn't get in
 
+
*** But allowing Eclipse to delegate seems like a good idea (Eclipse be the definer of a trust framework)
* {{bug|324125}} architecture diagrams - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/councils/roadmap_v2_0/AC_v2_0/index.php 2006 version] - relationship to e4 ?
+
*** Practical example: not just allow somebody else to sign, but also establish rules wrt build framework etc... not too much bureaucracy but also avoid glitches... want to proceed slowly
* '''IP Logs''' - Martin and Wayne - [http://eclipse.org/woolsey/ project woolsey] exists and open for community, Wayne hopes get soemthing downloadable by Christmas
+
** Question: How much of
** Allow projects to file bugs which list collections of libraries that are used for testing (and mark these collectively as exemt prereqs)
+
** '''RESOLUTION''' Follow up on the bug
*** Couldn't distribute those libs or put them in scm, but could have them on the build server
+
  
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
+
==== '''{{bug|355418}} p2 repository links on project download pages confuse some users''' ====
 +
* '''{{bug|355418}} p2 repository links on project download pages confuse some users'''
 +
** John: Can the current 404 page be smarter? An XSLT is available to generate an index.html matching the repo content
 +
** Martin, John - using XSLT to validate repo content, but that's more of committer workflow
 +
** End users typically won't need that extra info
 +
** John: Current 404 page is an improvement over what we had in the past already
 +
** Martin: Adding project specific information is up to the project
 +
** Idea: Add a generic link on the 404 page "if you want this page improved and you are a committer, here's what you can do''
 +
** '''RESOLUTION''' Follow up on the bug
  
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
+
==== '''{{bug|351461}} exsd files in source or binary bundles''' ====
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
+
* '''{{bug|351461}} exsd files in source or binary bundles'''
 +
** Currently, many projects put exsd into the source bundle only...
 +
** Recommend putting it into the binary bundle? - Probably depends on consumer community
 +
** John: Putting into the binary bundle doesn't harm, but often more is needed (ISV Docs, ... and often the source)
 +
** Platform project ships SDK as source + ISV Docs + exsd together ... so recommendation may depend on how a project packages stuff
 +
*** PDE Editor's link to the exsd may be broken when exsd is not available
 +
** Doug: In CDT, feel like mixing source and SDK too easily... SDK doesn't necessarily mean you have to have source... term "SDK" is overloaded
 +
** Martin: Many things can be configured by extension point without writing source...
 +
** David: exsd in the binary seems like a good idea... AC could recommend this (unless project has a reason not to)
 +
** Doug: exsd in binary may not be good practice without docs
 +
** '''RESOLUTION''' Follow up on the bug
  
* '''[[Architecture Council/Open Issues|AC Bugzilla]]''' backlog
+
==== Shell Access, Security and Hudson ====
* See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items that were not discussed
+
* Kim: Was quite surprised about the urgent revocation of shell access
* News from the EMO and Councils ?
+
** Security is important, but we also need to get our jobs done
 +
* Doug: Can't let the kernel.org problem happen to Eclipse
 +
* Martin: Central build server is a convenience but not an excuse for single point of failure... should be able to build at home
 +
** Important to have all services that HAVE TO be centralized should be as simple as possible
 +
* Martin: Revoking access was a way of minimizing risk quickly
 +
* What can we learn from this?
 +
** '''Decentralize''' where possible, simplify where possible... more scared of Eclipse.org while kernel.org is still down
 +
** Minimize entrypoints / risks - be as secure as possible (learn from others; auditing; ...)
 +
** But paranoia can't be at cost of productivity. Must do "the best we can".
 +
* Christian: Should we enforce stronger password rules for bugzilla?
 +
** '''AI Martin''' file bug
 +
* Doug: Worried about Hudson .. mailinglist had some good suggestions .. who owns Security Policy by the Way ?
 +
* Kim: Talk to Apache Foundation .. Eclipse.org get someone to audit their Servers?
 +
* David: Wasn't a Security Council put in place ?
 +
** John: Purpose of that council was tracing / addressing security vulnerabilities in Eclipse hosted code ... may apply to Hudson since it's an Eclipse project :)
 +
* Mary: Think about what to know when the next crisis happens (coordination, ...)
 +
* Martin: Trusts Denis, but should bring up the idea of security audits with the Board (would need budget from the Board anyways).
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==

Revision as of 12:10, 15 September 2011

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday September 15, 2011 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
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NEW passcode 428029063

Contents

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Boris Bokowski
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Sven Efftinge
Mylyn: Steffen Pingel Mik Kersten
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
SOA: Adrian Mos
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: (TBA)
WTP: Chuck Bridgham Dave Carver
Neil Hauge

RESCHEDULED CALL from Sep 8 to Sep 15 to avoid conflict with Eclipsecon PC meeting.

  • Signed-up: John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Chuck Bridgham, Christian Campo, Kim Moir, Adrian Mos, Martin O, Brian Payton, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, David Williams,
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Andrew Overholt (vacation), Mike Wilson (conflict)
  • No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Achim Loerke, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Andrew Overholt, Steffen Pingel, Pascal Rapicault, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Tom Watson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

New Topics

Welcome to Adrian Mos (SOA PMC)

  • Xerox; on SOA PMC since its inception; interested in SOA, editors, runtimes, ...
  • SOA is a transformation of the older STP TLP, some companies dropped off during transition...
  • still through rough times, but getting new proposals from Stardust / BPM2, getting fresh codebase...
  • Sopera now especially interested in Runtimes, eg Swordfish

bug 354756 Remove direct Eclipse signing requirement

  • bug 354756 Remove direct Eclipse signing requirement
    • Idea is to not require an Eclipse.org certificate but allow any trusted / validated key in order to
    • One reason for signing was that at Install time, Eclipse UI warns about unsigned content (to ensure trustworthy source)
    • In the runtime area, signing is probably not that important since no Eclipse UI is used
    • Mary: With everything going a lot more connected / online, signing is getting more important... should not preclude evolving into a more decentralized approach
      • (Higgins is all about how to establish trust in a decentralized, networked way)
    • Martin: "What kind of trust would be good enough" if we allow "any trusted key" instead of the Eclipse.org key
    • Martin: Single additional step in the ladder of trust, eg require a signer's key to be signed with the Eclipse.org key ?
      • Mary: need more infrastructure than mere delegation to ensure a bad actor doesn't get in
      • But allowing Eclipse to delegate seems like a good idea (Eclipse be the definer of a trust framework)
      • Practical example: not just allow somebody else to sign, but also establish rules wrt build framework etc... not too much bureaucracy but also avoid glitches... want to proceed slowly
    • Question: How much of
    • RESOLUTION Follow up on the bug

bug 355418 p2 repository links on project download pages confuse some users

  • bug 355418 p2 repository links on project download pages confuse some users
    • John: Can the current 404 page be smarter? An XSLT is available to generate an index.html matching the repo content
    • Martin, John - using XSLT to validate repo content, but that's more of committer workflow
    • End users typically won't need that extra info
    • John: Current 404 page is an improvement over what we had in the past already
    • Martin: Adding project specific information is up to the project
    • Idea: Add a generic link on the 404 page "if you want this page improved and you are a committer, here's what you can do
    • RESOLUTION Follow up on the bug

bug 351461 exsd files in source or binary bundles

  • bug 351461 exsd files in source or binary bundles
    • Currently, many projects put exsd into the source bundle only...
    • Recommend putting it into the binary bundle? - Probably depends on consumer community
    • John: Putting into the binary bundle doesn't harm, but often more is needed (ISV Docs, ... and often the source)
    • Platform project ships SDK as source + ISV Docs + exsd together ... so recommendation may depend on how a project packages stuff
      • PDE Editor's link to the exsd may be broken when exsd is not available
    • Doug: In CDT, feel like mixing source and SDK too easily... SDK doesn't necessarily mean you have to have source... term "SDK" is overloaded
    • Martin: Many things can be configured by extension point without writing source...
    • David: exsd in the binary seems like a good idea... AC could recommend this (unless project has a reason not to)
    • Doug: exsd in binary may not be good practice without docs
    • RESOLUTION Follow up on the bug

Shell Access, Security and Hudson

  • Kim: Was quite surprised about the urgent revocation of shell access
    • Security is important, but we also need to get our jobs done
  • Doug: Can't let the kernel.org problem happen to Eclipse
  • Martin: Central build server is a convenience but not an excuse for single point of failure... should be able to build at home
    • Important to have all services that HAVE TO be centralized should be as simple as possible
  • Martin: Revoking access was a way of minimizing risk quickly
  • What can we learn from this?
    • Decentralize where possible, simplify where possible... more scared of Eclipse.org while kernel.org is still down
    • Minimize entrypoints / risks - be as secure as possible (learn from others; auditing; ...)
    • But paranoia can't be at cost of productivity. Must do "the best we can".
  • Christian: Should we enforce stronger password rules for bugzilla?
    • AI Martin file bug
  • Doug: Worried about Hudson .. mailinglist had some good suggestions .. who owns Security Policy by the Way ?
  • Kim: Talk to Apache Foundation .. Eclipse.org get someone to audit their Servers?
  • David: Wasn't a Security Council put in place ?
    • John: Purpose of that council was tracing / addressing security vulnerabilities in Eclipse hosted code ... may apply to Hudson since it's an Eclipse project :)
  • Mary: Think about what to know when the next crisis happens (coordination, ...)
  • Martin: Trusts Denis, but should bring up the idea of security audits with the Board (would need budget from the Board anyways).

Action Items

  • Cleaned up old action items, see Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011 for old stuff
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated

Next Meeting