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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/September 13 2012"
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* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict) | * '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict) | ||
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| + | * '''Signed-Up''': Sebastien Gandon, Wayne Beaton, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Achim Loerke, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, John Arthorne, Tom Watson, Neil Hauge, Brian Payton, Chuck Bridgham | ||
| + | * '''Regrets''': | ||
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=== New Topics === | === New Topics === | ||
| + | ==== Platform 4.2 Performance ==== | ||
* Current discussions about 4.2 performance and lack of Platform committers | * Current discussions about 4.2 performance and lack of Platform committers | ||
| + | ** Martin: From [[Eclipse/PMC]] point of view, couple of unfortunate coincidences (1. IBM performance lab had to be closed; 2. Loss of Platform committers; 3. Juno Milestone progress looked good, so some surprise about issues being seen now) | ||
| + | *** Good progress being made on resolving issues with CBI, Foundation Hardware for reinstating Performance tests | ||
| + | *** What else can we do to improve the Platform staffing | ||
| + | ** [http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/cross-project-issues-dev/msg08123.html Cross-project Thread]; {{Bug|389215}} lower barrier, {{Bug|389175}} dual stream | ||
| + | *** few people complaining very loud, but are we aware of a broader user community complaining? | ||
| + | *** Quick google for "Eclipse Juno slow performance" brings up quite a bit; searching "Eclipse Juno" finds Performance related postings in Forums relatively soon | ||
| + | *** Things do not seem overly bad but we shouldn't discount them too much | ||
| + | ** Wayne: Suggestions on the bug are good, but the feeling of a "sky is falling" kind of attitude does not really seem appropriate | ||
| + | ** John: Surprised that there was so much focus on the Performance tests ... not aware of any other project even doing performance tests, and unsure whether the tests would even have helped in the concrete cases observed | ||
| + | *** {{bug|385272}} Things are good initially, but get really slow after 8 hours usage or after certain plugins are installed | ||
| + | *** Perftests never found leaks or issues observed after a long time only ... perftests are valuable and important but wouldn't have found everything | ||
| + | ** Not so much loss of functionality, but harm being done to the Community by the bad buzz going on - quick communication is needed | ||
| + | * '''RESOLUTION:''' quick communication to those involved in the buzz; | ||
| + | ** John: Communication some time next week (this week has been much data gathering) | ||
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| − | * | + | * Idea: Run Perftest infrastructure not only against Platform but against EPP Package ? |
| − | ** | + | ** Test scenarios would need to be added to ensure that additional plugins actually do have an impact |
| − | ** | + | ** Once the perftest infrastructure is on the Foundation Servers, other projects may be able to make use of it |
| + | ** Steffen: This would really help for Mylyn ! | ||
| + | *** John: Back-end piece for databases / perftest data correlation is some more work, not sure yet who can spend time there | ||
| + | * '''RESOLUTION:''' improve automation on Eclipse.org hardware (CBI, Hudson, perftests, Gerrit, ...) | ||
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| − | + | ==== Upstaffing Platform Committers ==== | |
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | ||
| + | * Martin: Ideally, companies / organizations need to invest, allocating full-time committers | ||
| + | * Martin: How to make best use of those people who are investing "some" time (eg for a patch) but not full time ? | ||
| + | ** Wayne: Could Mentors / AC Members / Community in General take a bigger role in the Review process ? | ||
| + | * Michael S: There need to be some people who have the deep understanding and vision to maintain the Platform architecture and vision - we need more of those. | ||
| + | ** John: The most helpful thing right now is LTS - Companies contributing committers for fixes across everything ("shallow") with focus on stability | ||
| + | ** Lowering the Barrier: The biggest part is how much effort the contributor puts in (range from just identifying the bug - giving bug+fix+patch+tests) | ||
| + | ** Martin: So there is space for a role of a "Bug Mentor" that helps contributors go the extra step also submitting explanation + tests to get a "greatbug" | ||
| + | *** Could this be automated somehow ? | ||
| + | ** Currently there is just 1 giant eight-hour test suite, this should be broken up somehow | ||
| + | * How is the "tragedy of the commons" situation with other Communities? - Eg Apache seems similar to Eclipse, staffing varies greatly by project | ||
| + | |||
| + | * '''Next Steps?''' eg re Mentoring bugs | ||
| + | ** How to identify those bugs that are interesting to look at ? | ||
| + | ** John: Bugzilla queries like "attachment has patch" worked in the past, but identifying comments with a git URL is harder | ||
| + | *** '''AI Wayne''' check whether could hack up something | ||
| + | *** Martin: Maybe add a "comment is patch" flag on the data entry side ? Eg Review flag ? | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | ==== Announcements ==== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Wayne: Hitting the T-3 Months mark of CVS retirement. | ||
| + | ** Please inform mentored projects and make them plan for git migration. Website migration is possible now {{bug|324116}} | ||
| + | ** Git Migration Status of Projects: | ||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | |||
| + | <!-- | ||
=== General Topics === | === General Topics === | ||
Revision as of 12:01, 13 September 2012
| Meeting Title: | Architecture Council Monthly Meeting |
| Date & Time: | Thursday September 13, 2012 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change HTML |  iCal
|
| Dial-in: | Let's use the Foundation's Asterisk setup for this call:
Participant conference extension: 701 then enter pin: 51968
|
Contents
Attendees
All AC Members are invited.
- PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
| BIRT: | |
Wenbin He |
| DTP: | Brian Payton | Linda Chan |
| Eclipse: | Mike Wilson | John Arthorne Boris Bokowski |
| Modeling: | Ed Merks | Cédric Brun Sven Efftinge |
| Mylyn: | Steffen Pingel | Mik Kersten |
| RT: | Christian Campo | Tom Watson |
| SOA: | Adrian Mos | Sebastien Gandon |
| Technology: | Gunnar Wagenknecht | Wayne Beaton |
| Tools: | Doug Schaefer | |
| WTP: | Chuck Bridgham | Dave Carver Neil Hauge |
- Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict)
- Signed-Up: Sebastien Gandon, Wayne Beaton, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Achim Loerke, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, John Arthorne, Tom Watson, Neil Hauge, Brian Payton, Chuck Bridgham
- Regrets:
Agenda / Notes
- Feel free to edit, but not during the call!
Review of Last Meeting
- Architecture Council/Meetings/June 14 2012
- Still open items moved to #Action_Items
New Topics
Platform 4.2 Performance
- Current discussions about 4.2 performance and lack of Platform committers
- Martin: From Eclipse/PMC point of view, couple of unfortunate coincidences (1. IBM performance lab had to be closed; 2. Loss of Platform committers; 3. Juno Milestone progress looked good, so some surprise about issues being seen now)
- Good progress being made on resolving issues with CBI, Foundation Hardware for reinstating Performance tests
- What else can we do to improve the Platform staffing
- Cross-project Thread; bug 389215 lower barrier, bug 389175 dual stream
- few people complaining very loud, but are we aware of a broader user community complaining?
- Quick google for "Eclipse Juno slow performance" brings up quite a bit; searching "Eclipse Juno" finds Performance related postings in Forums relatively soon
- Things do not seem overly bad but we shouldn't discount them too much
- Wayne: Suggestions on the bug are good, but the feeling of a "sky is falling" kind of attitude does not really seem appropriate
- John: Surprised that there was so much focus on the Performance tests ... not aware of any other project even doing performance tests, and unsure whether the tests would even have helped in the concrete cases observed
- bug 385272 Things are good initially, but get really slow after 8 hours usage or after certain plugins are installed
- Perftests never found leaks or issues observed after a long time only ... perftests are valuable and important but wouldn't have found everything
- Not so much loss of functionality, but harm being done to the Community by the bad buzz going on - quick communication is needed
- Martin: From Eclipse/PMC point of view, couple of unfortunate coincidences (1. IBM performance lab had to be closed; 2. Loss of Platform committers; 3. Juno Milestone progress looked good, so some surprise about issues being seen now)
- RESOLUTION: quick communication to those involved in the buzz;
- John: Communication some time next week (this week has been much data gathering)
- Idea: Run Perftest infrastructure not only against Platform but against EPP Package ?
- Test scenarios would need to be added to ensure that additional plugins actually do have an impact
- Once the perftest infrastructure is on the Foundation Servers, other projects may be able to make use of it
- Steffen: This would really help for Mylyn !
- John: Back-end piece for databases / perftest data correlation is some more work, not sure yet who can spend time there
- RESOLUTION: improve automation on Eclipse.org hardware (CBI, Hudson, perftests, Gerrit, ...)
Upstaffing Platform Committers
- Martin: Ideally, companies / organizations need to invest, allocating full-time committers
- Martin: How to make best use of those people who are investing "some" time (eg for a patch) but not full time ?
- Wayne: Could Mentors / AC Members / Community in General take a bigger role in the Review process ?
- Michael S: There need to be some people who have the deep understanding and vision to maintain the Platform architecture and vision - we need more of those.
- John: The most helpful thing right now is LTS - Companies contributing committers for fixes across everything ("shallow") with focus on stability
- Lowering the Barrier: The biggest part is how much effort the contributor puts in (range from just identifying the bug - giving bug+fix+patch+tests)
- Martin: So there is space for a role of a "Bug Mentor" that helps contributors go the extra step also submitting explanation + tests to get a "greatbug"
- Could this be automated somehow ?
- Currently there is just 1 giant eight-hour test suite, this should be broken up somehow
- How is the "tragedy of the commons" situation with other Communities? - Eg Apache seems similar to Eclipse, staffing varies greatly by project
- Next Steps? eg re Mentoring bugs
- How to identify those bugs that are interesting to look at ?
- John: Bugzilla queries like "attachment has patch" worked in the past, but identifying comments with a git URL is harder
- AI Wayne check whether could hack up something
- Martin: Maybe add a "comment is patch" flag on the data entry side ? Eg Review flag ?
Announcements
- Wayne: Hitting the T-3 Months mark of CVS retirement.
- Please inform mentored projects and make them plan for git migration. Website migration is possible now bug 324116
- Git Migration Status of Projects:
Action Items
- Cleaned up old action items, see Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011 for old stuff
- (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
- (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
- (old) Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
- (old) Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
- Martin contact / propose potential new AC members