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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/September 10 2009"

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| Dial-in:
 
| Dial-in:
| '''(+1) 613.287.8000''' (Ottawa and international) or<br>866.362.7064 (toll-free North America)<br>passcode '''464440#'''
+
| '''NEW''' Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid<br/>'''NEW''' U.S.     1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid<br/>'''NEW''' passcode '''428029063'''
 
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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
| Wenfeng Li
+
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
| Gary Xue
+
| <strike>Gary Xue</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DTP:'''
 
| '''DTP:'''
| Brian Fitzpatrick
+
| <strike>Brian Fitzpatrick</strike>
 
| Linda Chan
 
| Linda Chan
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DSDP:'''
 
| '''DSDP:'''
| Doug Gaff
+
| <strike>Doug Gaff</strike>
 
| Martin Oberhuber
 
| Martin Oberhuber
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
| Philippe Mulet
+
| <strike>Philippe Mulet</strike>
| Mike Wilson
+
| <strike>Mike Wilson</strike><br/>John Arthorne
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
| Richard Gronback
+
| Ed Merks
| Ed Merks<br/>Cédric Brun
+
| <strike>Cédric Brun</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
| Jeff McAffer
+
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
| Jochen Krause<br/>Tom Watson
+
| <strike>Jochen Krause</strike><br/><strike>Tom Watson</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''STP:'''
 
| '''STP:'''
| Oisin Hurley
+
| <strike>Oisin Hurley</strike>
| Antoine Toulme
+
| <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''
 
| '''Technology:'''
| Gunnar Wagenknecht
+
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Tools:'''
 
| '''Tools:'''
| Doug Schaefer
+
| <strike>Doug Schaefer</strike>
 
|
 
|
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''TPTP:'''
 
| '''TPTP:'''
 
| Eugene Chan
 
| Eugene Chan
| Oliver Cole<br/>Joanna Kubasta
+
| <strike>Oliver Cole</strike><br/><strike>Joanna Kubasta</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| '''WTP:'''
| Tim deBoer
+
| <strike>Tim deBoer</strike>
 
| Dave Carver
 
| Dave Carver
 
|}
 
|}
  
* '''Signed-up:'''  
+
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Mik Kersten, Bernd Kolb, Andrew Overholt, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Darin Wright
* '''Regrets:'''  Neil Hauge
+
** '''Special Guests:''' Denis Roy
* '''No-Show:'''  
+
* '''Regrets:''' Cedric Brun (sick), Brian Fitzpatrick (leaving the AC), Doug Gaff (conflict), Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley (conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (conflict), Gary Xue (conflict)
 
+
* '''No-Show:''' Tim deBoer, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Markus Knauer, Jochen Krause, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Georg Schmidt, Antoine Toulme, David Williams, Mike Wilson
<!--
+
* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Neil Hauge, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Tom Schindl
+
* '''Regrets:''' Tim deBoer (conflict), Doug Gaff (conflict), Oisin Hurley (vacation), Bernd Kolb (travelling), Ed Merks (travelling)
+
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Boris Bokowski, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Andrew Overholt, Michael Scharf, Georg Schmidt, Mark Vandenbrink, David Williams, Darin Wright
+
-->
+
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
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=== Review of Last Meeting ===
 
=== Review of Last Meeting ===
 
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/August 13 2009]]
 
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/August 13 2009]]
* (''old'') '''Dave Carver''' to blog about bugzilla best practices
+
* (''obsolete'') '''Dave Carver''' to blog about bugzilla best practices
* (''old'') '''Wayne''' to E-mail e.o-committers after that
+
* (''obsolete'') '''Wayne''' to E-mail e.o-committers after that
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave C''' prepare a "cookbook" for {{bug|283734}} Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText --> [[DocumentationGuidelines]], [http://intellectualcramps.blogspot.com/2009/08/cramps-on-single-sourcing-with-wikis.html Dave's Blog]
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Dave C''' prepare a "cookbook" for {{bug|283734}} Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText --> [[DocumentationGuidelines]], [http://intellectualcramps.blogspot.com/2009/08/cramps-on-single-sourcing-with-wikis.html Dave's Blog]
* '''Tom S''' ask Maven expert to comment on {{bug|283745}}
+
* (''obsolete'') '''Tom S''' ask Maven expert to comment on {{bug|283745}}
* '''Wayne''' to blog about Maven {{bug|283745}} to get more comments
+
* (''obsolete'') '''Wayne''' to blog about Maven {{bug|283745}} to get more comments
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to comment on {{bug|283745}} that the AC discussed and supports maven
 
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''Martin''' to comment on {{bug|283745}} that the AC discussed and supports maven
* '''Dave C''' work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
 
 
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]]
 
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]]
  
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We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
 
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
  
* {{bug|283745}} - Maven - current status, next steps
+
==== {{bug|283745}} - Maven - current status, next steps ====
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
+
* Wayne: Foundation contacted Sonatype about giving GPL'd Nexus version (maybe only commercial provides OBR support)
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
+
* Need to understand better what needs to happen
* {{bug|288721}} Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
+
* Mylyn provided everything as POM but canceled this again a year ago since there was no consumers
 +
* Move ahead if there is not too much work
 +
 
 +
==== {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo ====
 +
* Agreed on the bug that this should work
 +
* John: Platform build now working on Eclipse.org, but blocked on not being able to tag
 +
* Related: Build machine is too slow if many people start building on build.eclipse.org
 +
* Martin: Would vservers help?
 +
* Dave: Stats by Foundation would help
 +
* Bernd: Not signing every build would help
 +
* Denis: Possible solutions include more servers / less signing / better scheduling
 +
* Wayne: Hudson should be able to control what runs in parallel
 +
* Bernd: What about build2.eclipse.org rather than vservers
 +
** Denis: Even if on multiple servers, everyone building at the same time is an issue
 +
* Options for the Community: less signing, different servers, funnel everything through a single build queue
 +
** DaveC: Incremental checkouts rather than pulling ALL
 +
* '''AI DaveC''' to come up with ideas in a document how to save build resources
 +
** Better implement improvements directly in Athena rather than having projects do all by themselves
  
=== Old items ===
+
==== {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices ====
 +
* Boris: If there is only ONE assignee for all "triaged" bugs across all of Eclipse, it would be hard to "listen"
 +
* Want experience reports from a first team implementing the new solution before advertising best practice
 +
* The new TRIAGED state would be a global change
 +
* Mik: Mylyn experiments went well, Bugzilla team has been doing something similar
 +
* If experiments with a TRIAGED state fail, it could be converted into a status_whiteboard or keyword
 +
** Mik would prefer a project to try it with a keyword
 +
* Mik: Adding a state is the biggest change we can make... why Mozilla hasn't done this?
 +
** Mozilla is using UNCONFIRMED as initial state, once triaged they go to NEW (this is a per-project setting)
 +
** UNCONFIRMED is supported on a per-project basis (as an exception)
 +
** Advantage: consistent with mozilla, Disadvantage: inconsistent with Eclipse.org
 +
** '''AI Dave C''' volunteers the WTP project to go and try the UNCONFIRMED state (after checking with Dave W)
 +
* Migration problems with existing NEW bugs?
 +
** Boris thinks that most bugs in the system today are actually triaged... so less migration effort
 +
** Denis: Can configure bugmail to receive ONE initial E-mail only as long as a bug is UNCONFIRMED
  
* The art of project release naming - no bug yet ?!?
+
==== {{bug|288721}} - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver ====
 +
* Quality statistics for Projects. Dave is a fan of Eclemma
 +
* Boris: Author of Eclemma is working on a replacement for Emma ... looking for volunteers to test it
 +
** Advantage: Would work directly in the VM -- better performance; possibly EPL'd
 +
* Sonar: Effort for setting it up? Any guinea pigs?
 +
* Dave: Buckminster working on Eclemma integration
 +
* '''AI Interested parties''' look at and comment on the bug
  
* '''[[Architecture Council/Open Issues|AC Bugzilla]]''' backlog
+
=== Topics for Next Meeting ===
 +
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
 +
* Wayne: Project plans are important but in a bad state!
 +
** Mentors please encourage projects to keep their project plans up to date! (Wayne going to blog about)
  
* '''Follow-up on [[Architecture Council/Bugzilla Best Practices]] - how to move on?'''
+
* {{bug|283734}} Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText
* '''Dave C''' AC should look at other Agile Principles can be employed (in addition to the Bugzilla practices)
+
* See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items that were not discussed
+
* News from the EMO and Councils ?
+
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
Line 113: Line 144:
 
* (''old'') '''Cedric, Tom''' talk to their PMCs about making AC representation official (can be 2 backup reps)
 
* (''old'') '''Cedric, Tom''' talk to their PMCs about making AC representation official (can be 2 backup reps)
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
* '''Dave Carver''' to blog about bugzilla best practices
+
* (''old'') '''Dave C''' work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
* '''Wayne''' to E-mail e.o-committers after that
+
* '''Dave C''' come up with a document how to save build resources
 +
* '''Dave C''' to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==

Latest revision as of 15:10, 10 September 2009

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday September 10, 2009 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: NEW Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid
NEW U.S. 1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid
NEW passcode 428029063

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Fitzpatrick Linda Chan
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Philippe Mulet Mike Wilson
John Arthorne
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
Tom Watson
STP: Oisin Hurley Antoine Toulme
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Eugene Chan Oliver Cole
Joanna Kubasta
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Mik Kersten, Bernd Kolb, Andrew Overholt, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Darin Wright
    • Special Guests: Denis Roy
  • Regrets: Cedric Brun (sick), Brian Fitzpatrick (leaving the AC), Doug Gaff (conflict), Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley (conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (conflict), Gary Xue (conflict)
  • No-Show: Tim deBoer, Adrian Colyer, Naci Dai, Sven Efftinge, Markus Knauer, Jochen Krause, Jeff McAffer, Philippe Mulet, Wenfeng Li, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Tom Schindl, Georg Schmidt, Antoine Toulme, David Williams, Mike Wilson

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

New Topics

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

bug 283745 - Maven - current status, next steps

  • Wayne: Foundation contacted Sonatype about giving GPL'd Nexus version (maybe only commercial provides OBR support)
  • Need to understand better what needs to happen
  • Mylyn provided everything as POM but canceled this again a year ago since there was no consumers
  • Move ahead if there is not too much work

bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo

  • Agreed on the bug that this should work
  • John: Platform build now working on Eclipse.org, but blocked on not being able to tag
  • Related: Build machine is too slow if many people start building on build.eclipse.org
  • Martin: Would vservers help?
  • Dave: Stats by Foundation would help
  • Bernd: Not signing every build would help
  • Denis: Possible solutions include more servers / less signing / better scheduling
  • Wayne: Hudson should be able to control what runs in parallel
  • Bernd: What about build2.eclipse.org rather than vservers
    • Denis: Even if on multiple servers, everyone building at the same time is an issue
  • Options for the Community: less signing, different servers, funnel everything through a single build queue
    • DaveC: Incremental checkouts rather than pulling ALL
  • AI DaveC to come up with ideas in a document how to save build resources
    • Better implement improvements directly in Athena rather than having projects do all by themselves

bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices

  • Boris: If there is only ONE assignee for all "triaged" bugs across all of Eclipse, it would be hard to "listen"
  • Want experience reports from a first team implementing the new solution before advertising best practice
  • The new TRIAGED state would be a global change
  • Mik: Mylyn experiments went well, Bugzilla team has been doing something similar
  • If experiments with a TRIAGED state fail, it could be converted into a status_whiteboard or keyword
    • Mik would prefer a project to try it with a keyword
  • Mik: Adding a state is the biggest change we can make... why Mozilla hasn't done this?
    • Mozilla is using UNCONFIRMED as initial state, once triaged they go to NEW (this is a per-project setting)
    • UNCONFIRMED is supported on a per-project basis (as an exception)
    • Advantage: consistent with mozilla, Disadvantage: inconsistent with Eclipse.org
    • AI Dave C volunteers the WTP project to go and try the UNCONFIRMED state (after checking with Dave W)
  • Migration problems with existing NEW bugs?
    • Boris thinks that most bugs in the system today are actually triaged... so less migration effort
    • Denis: Can configure bugmail to receive ONE initial E-mail only as long as a bug is UNCONFIRMED

bug 288721 - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver

  • Quality statistics for Projects. Dave is a fan of Eclemma
  • Boris: Author of Eclemma is working on a replacement for Emma ... looking for volunteers to test it
    • Advantage: Would work directly in the VM -- better performance; possibly EPL'd
  • Sonar: Effort for setting it up? Any guinea pigs?
  • Dave: Buckminster working on Eclemma integration
  • AI Interested parties look at and comment on the bug

Topics for Next Meeting

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • Wayne: Project plans are important but in a bad state!
    • Mentors please encourage projects to keep their project plans up to date! (Wayne going to blog about)

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor
  • (old) Cedric, Tom talk to their PMCs about making AC representation official (can be 2 backup reps)
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state

Next Meeting