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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/October 8 2009"

(Attendees)
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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
| Wenfeng Li
+
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
 
| Gary Xue
 
| Gary Xue
 
|-
 
|-
Line 28: Line 28:
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
| Mike Wilson
+
| <strike>Mike Wilson</strike>
| <strike>John Arthorne</strike>
+
| <strike>John Arthorne</strike><br/>Martin Oberhuber
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
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| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
 
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
| Jochen Krause<br/>Tom Watson
+
| <strike>Jochen Krause</strike><br/>Tom Watson
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''STP:'''
 
| '''STP:'''
| Oisin Hurley
+
| <strike>Oisin Hurley</strike>
| Antoine Toulme
+
| <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''
 
| '''Technology:'''
| Gunnar Wagenknecht
+
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
|-
 
|-
Line 53: Line 53:
 
| '''TPTP:'''
 
| '''TPTP:'''
 
| Eugene Chan
 
| Eugene Chan
| Oliver Cole<br/>Joanna Kubasta
+
| <strike>Oliver Cole</strike><br/><strike>Joanna Kubasta</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| '''WTP:'''
Line 60: Line 60:
 
|}
 
|}
  
* '''Signed-up:'''  
+
* '''Signed-up:''' Wayne Beaton, Boris Bokowski (late), Cedric Brun, Eugene Chan, Tim deBoer, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Tom Watson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue,
 
* '''Regrets:''' John Arthorne, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Gaff, Jeff McAffer
 
* '''Regrets:''' John Arthorne, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Gaff, Jeff McAffer
* '''No-Show:'''  
+
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Oisin Hurley, Bernd Kolb, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Sebastian Voigt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf
  
 
<!--
 
<!--
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Boris Bokowski, Mik Kersten, Bernd Kolb, Andrew Overholt, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Darin Wright
+
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Boris Bokowski, Mik Kersten, Bernd Kolb, Andrew Overholt, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Darin Wright,
 
** '''Special Guests:''' Denis Roy
 
** '''Special Guests:''' Denis Roy
 
* '''Regrets:'''  Cedric Brun (sick), Brian Fitzpatrick (leaving the AC), Doug Gaff (conflict), Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley (conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (conflict), Gary Xue (conflict)
 
* '''Regrets:'''  Cedric Brun (sick), Brian Fitzpatrick (leaving the AC), Doug Gaff (conflict), Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley (conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (conflict), Gary Xue (conflict)
Line 89: Line 89:
 
=== New Topics ===
 
=== New Topics ===
  
* Welcome Brian Payton (IBM), for DTP
+
* Welcome Brian Payton (IBM San Jose since 25 years), DTP PMC Lead - replacing in Brian Fitzpatrick who moved from Sybase to Redhat
 
* Nick Boldt - an incredible '''28 +1s''' out of 40 active [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] !!! That's 73% including the nominator. I cannot remember any politician ever achieving such a tremendous vote of respect and affirmation!
 
* Nick Boldt - an incredible '''28 +1s''' out of 40 active [[Architecture Council/Members and Mentors]] !!! That's 73% including the nominator. I cannot remember any politician ever achieving such a tremendous vote of respect and affirmation!
 +
** '''AI Martin''' recommend to Mike
 
** Please nominate more candidates now!
 
** Please nominate more candidates now!
 +
** End of term of service for some next year -- a "checkpoint" for members themselves to see whether they want to continue serve
 
* Pruning inactive members (dormant status)
 
* Pruning inactive members (dormant status)
 
* New members
 
* New members
Line 97: Line 99:
 
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
 
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
  
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
+
==== Project Plans ====
* Wayne: Project plans are important but in a bad state!
+
* Wayne: Project plans are important - awsome feedback, but a little behind schedule
** Mentors please encourage projects to keep their project plans up to date! (Wayne going to blog about)
+
** Most projects have a plan right now - not all have milestones. Please add milestones and themes
 +
** Mentors please check with your mentored projects whether they have a useful project plan that contains future milestones
  
* {{bug|283734}} Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText
+
==== {{bug|283734}} Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText ====
 +
* Some projects (including Mylyn) use Eclipsepedia as their main source for docs
 +
* Using headless version of WikiText to translate that into Eclipse Help / PDF
 +
* Should be an option for project, not required -- need easy instructions, linked from AC Best Practices, '''AI Martin''' file a bug for that
  
=== Old items ===
+
==== {{bug|261544}} '''API Deprecation Policies''' ====
 +
* Eclipse Platform adding API Tooling support: API Usage Reports since 3.6m2 (via "External Tools", see the 3.6m2 N&N for details)
 +
* Revive discussion on the bug
 +
* Mik: Eclipse Platform to inform the AC when the Platform Policy has been finalized, such that projects can decide to follow
 +
* Darin: Bug for the foundation to publish results of API scan -- Darin would be happy to do that
 +
* Wayne: Should we expose the API Scanner through a Webinar?
 +
* Mik: Could we perform an API Scan on all of Helios?
 +
** Darin: Focus on references to org.eclipse.* only -- not interested in Orbit, org.apache etc
 +
** Has been discussed on the PC as well
 +
** '''AI Wayne''' to look into doing the Report
 +
** '''AI Martin''' bring it up on the Eclipse PMC (publishing the actual policy)
  
* {{bug|283745}} - Maven - current status, next steps
+
==== e4 and UI technologies ====
 +
* Brian Payton: e4 -- 3 or 4 new UI technologies, which one is recommended?
 +
* Martin: Ask the e4 mailing list
 +
* Doug S: e4 team to present their progress to the AC - '''AI Martin''' bring forward to the Eclipse PMC - standing agenda item for e4
 +
 
 +
==== {{bug|283745}} - Maven Repository at Eclipse ====
 +
* Wayne: Talked with Mike M to Sonatype folks about possible options
 +
* Could have a single Repo that can be accessed as p2, OBR and Maven...
 +
** sounds very interesting, but only supported by their Nexus commercial product, dont want to sacrifice vendor neutrality although Sonatype would be willing to give for no money
 +
** Open Source version of Nexus just supports Maven - no decisions been made so far
 +
* Only 5-10 people really expressed interest in Maven, but EF haven't get some quantitative number how many (thousands) people would actually benefit
 +
** Ed: Henrik Lindberg proposed a Maven "converter", people should be happy with that...
 +
** Mik: Could we try out a Nexus p2 facade somewhere else, e.g. at Sonatype? - '''AI Wayne''' ask that question
 +
** Ed: Cloudsmith (Henrik) were also interested - '''AI Ed''' make them aware of the bug
 +
** Andrew: With Maven, he saw many projects leveraging Maven for build not care about API changes and get stuck with some older version of a dependency (because it's so easy to use the old version of the dependency) -- caused much pain for Fedora sine they want to ship only ONE version of things. Don't want to see Eclipse getting into that nightmare
 +
** Mik: assess the momentum behind Maven? - not everybody using Maven uses OSGi
 +
* Nexus commercial: How important is vendor neutrality?
 +
** Mik: Need concrete evidence of benefit
 +
* Wayne: Would we add more responsibilities to projects in order to support Maven (add pom.xml, add an entry on the portal, ...?)
 +
** How much do people want this, how much are projects willing to do to support this
 +
** Will it increase our coolness factor!
 +
*** Andrew: The question is really: is our coolness hampered by having strict API guidelines, and would Maven make it easier to work around that?
 +
*** Why would people want to use Maven? Is it because PDE build is too complex? - Don't impose anything on the projects (auto-generate pom.xml)
 +
*** Wayne: some Eclipse projects (including Jetty) who are not on OSGi are building from Maven
 +
** Wayne: It should be opt-in.
 +
** What Eclipse bundles are in repo1.maven.com today? - AJDT, Core, CVS, GEF, EMF, Equinox, Mylar, Mylyn, Search, SWT, Tomcat, WTP, ...
 +
 
 +
==== b3 - State of the art ====
 +
* Ed: Want to extract the better aspects of PDE Build and Buckminster into some more model based, declarative structure -- DESCRIBING what a build should do
 +
** Much of this design is in Manifests, build.xml, build.properties etc today... want to extract all of this into a high-level model
 +
** Henrik and Thomas very actively working on this, newsgroup with models, asking for feedback, Symposion at ESE ... rapid generation of interest
 +
 
 +
==== Bugzilla Best Practices ====
 +
* Tim: what is the current state?
 +
** {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
 +
** Martin: Denis was concerned about
 +
 
 +
=== Items for next meeting ===
 +
* Mik: {{bug|290094}} - Install Technoligies
 +
 
 +
=== Not discussed today ===
 +
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
 
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
 
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
 
 
* {{bug|288721}} - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
 
* {{bug|288721}} - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
  

Revision as of 11:02, 8 October 2009

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday October 8, 2009 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
DSDP: Doug Gaff Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Martin Oberhuber
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
RT: Jeff McAffer Jochen Krause
Tom Watson
STP: Oisin Hurley Antoine Toulme
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Eugene Chan Oliver Cole
Joanna Kubasta
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
  • Signed-up: Wayne Beaton, Boris Bokowski (late), Cedric Brun, Eugene Chan, Tim deBoer, Neil Hauge, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Tom Watson, Darin Wright, Gary Xue,
  • Regrets: John Arthorne, Dave Carver, Linda Chan, Doug Gaff, Jeff McAffer
  • No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Oisin Hurley, Bernd Kolb, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Sebastian Voigt, Gunnar Wagenknecht, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf


Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

  • Architecture Council/Meetings/September 10 2009
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor
  • (old) Cedric, Tom talk to their PMCs about making AC representation official (can be 2 backup reps)
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • bug 283745 Maven
  • Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • Still open items moved to #Action Items

New Topics

  • Welcome Brian Payton (IBM San Jose since 25 years), DTP PMC Lead - replacing in Brian Fitzpatrick who moved from Sybase to Redhat
  • Nick Boldt - an incredible 28 +1s out of 40 active Architecture Council/Members and Mentors !!! That's 73% including the nominator. I cannot remember any politician ever achieving such a tremendous vote of respect and affirmation!
    • AI Martin recommend to Mike
    • Please nominate more candidates now!
    • End of term of service for some next year -- a "checkpoint" for members themselves to see whether they want to continue serve
  • Pruning inactive members (dormant status)
  • New members

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

Project Plans

  • Wayne: Project plans are important - awsome feedback, but a little behind schedule
    • Most projects have a plan right now - not all have milestones. Please add milestones and themes
    • Mentors please check with your mentored projects whether they have a useful project plan that contains future milestones

bug 283734 Crowdsourcing Docs / WikiText

  • Some projects (including Mylyn) use Eclipsepedia as their main source for docs
  • Using headless version of WikiText to translate that into Eclipse Help / PDF
  • Should be an option for project, not required -- need easy instructions, linked from AC Best Practices, AI Martin file a bug for that

bug 261544 API Deprecation Policies

  • Eclipse Platform adding API Tooling support: API Usage Reports since 3.6m2 (via "External Tools", see the 3.6m2 N&N for details)
  • Revive discussion on the bug
  • Mik: Eclipse Platform to inform the AC when the Platform Policy has been finalized, such that projects can decide to follow
  • Darin: Bug for the foundation to publish results of API scan -- Darin would be happy to do that
  • Wayne: Should we expose the API Scanner through a Webinar?
  • Mik: Could we perform an API Scan on all of Helios?
    • Darin: Focus on references to org.eclipse.* only -- not interested in Orbit, org.apache etc
    • Has been discussed on the PC as well
    • AI Wayne to look into doing the Report
    • AI Martin bring it up on the Eclipse PMC (publishing the actual policy)

e4 and UI technologies

  • Brian Payton: e4 -- 3 or 4 new UI technologies, which one is recommended?
  • Martin: Ask the e4 mailing list
  • Doug S: e4 team to present their progress to the AC - AI Martin bring forward to the Eclipse PMC - standing agenda item for e4

bug 283745 - Maven Repository at Eclipse

  • Wayne: Talked with Mike M to Sonatype folks about possible options
  • Could have a single Repo that can be accessed as p2, OBR and Maven...
    • sounds very interesting, but only supported by their Nexus commercial product, dont want to sacrifice vendor neutrality although Sonatype would be willing to give for no money
    • Open Source version of Nexus just supports Maven - no decisions been made so far
  • Only 5-10 people really expressed interest in Maven, but EF haven't get some quantitative number how many (thousands) people would actually benefit
    • Ed: Henrik Lindberg proposed a Maven "converter", people should be happy with that...
    • Mik: Could we try out a Nexus p2 facade somewhere else, e.g. at Sonatype? - AI Wayne ask that question
    • Ed: Cloudsmith (Henrik) were also interested - AI Ed make them aware of the bug
    • Andrew: With Maven, he saw many projects leveraging Maven for build not care about API changes and get stuck with some older version of a dependency (because it's so easy to use the old version of the dependency) -- caused much pain for Fedora sine they want to ship only ONE version of things. Don't want to see Eclipse getting into that nightmare
    • Mik: assess the momentum behind Maven? - not everybody using Maven uses OSGi
  • Nexus commercial: How important is vendor neutrality?
    • Mik: Need concrete evidence of benefit
  • Wayne: Would we add more responsibilities to projects in order to support Maven (add pom.xml, add an entry on the portal, ...?)
    • How much do people want this, how much are projects willing to do to support this
    • Will it increase our coolness factor!
      • Andrew: The question is really: is our coolness hampered by having strict API guidelines, and would Maven make it easier to work around that?
      • Why would people want to use Maven? Is it because PDE build is too complex? - Don't impose anything on the projects (auto-generate pom.xml)
      • Wayne: some Eclipse projects (including Jetty) who are not on OSGi are building from Maven
    • Wayne: It should be opt-in.
    • What Eclipse bundles are in repo1.maven.com today? - AJDT, Core, CVS, GEF, EMF, Equinox, Mylar, Mylyn, Search, SWT, Tomcat, WTP, ...

b3 - State of the art

  • Ed: Want to extract the better aspects of PDE Build and Buckminster into some more model based, declarative structure -- DESCRIBING what a build should do
    • Much of this design is in Manifests, build.xml, build.properties etc today... want to extract all of this into a high-level model
    • Henrik and Thomas very actively working on this, newsgroup with models, asking for feedback, Symposion at ESE ... rapid generation of interest

Bugzilla Best Practices

  • Tim: what is the current state?
    • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
    • Martin: Denis was concerned about

Items for next meeting

Not discussed today

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
  • bug 288721 - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
  • The art of project release naming - no bug yet ?!?
  • API Deprecation Policy

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort

Next Meeting