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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/March 10 2011"

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 +
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Christian Campo, Dave Carver, Neil Hauge, Achim Loerke, Kim Moir, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, Pascal Rapicault, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Andrew Overholt, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict)
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict)
 +
* '''No-Show:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Kenn Hussey, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Jonathan West, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf
  
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* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Wayne Beaton, Boris Bokowski, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Achim Loerke, Jeff McAffer, Kim Moir, Martin O, Pascal Rapicault, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Jonathan West, David Williams, Andrew Overholt
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Tom Watson (conflict), Gunnar Wagenknecht, Tom Schindl (Travelling), Mik Kersten (travelling)
 
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue
 
-->
 
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
Line 74: Line 71:
  
 
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011]]
 
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011]]
*(''old'') '''Antoine / Dave C''' {{bug|316642}} Requirements Wiki for build systems
 
**Nick linked the [https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmGcQy-AtllqdDV3eUtCTEM0TU5UakVFbFAyWUhyZnc&hl=en#gid=0 Google Doc spreadsheet], Martin in touch with Henrik
 
*Kim - Source Rererences
 
 
*Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]]  
 
*Still open items moved to [[#Action_Items]]  
  
 
=== New Topics ===
 
=== New Topics ===
  
* Kim: I contributed a chapter on Eclipse to the upcoming  [http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/3847.html Architecture of Open Source applications] book.  The book is in the final stages of editing, and the editor, Greg Wilson, is looking for people to review the beta of the book, and provide feedback and quotes.  The book has 24 chapters and each chapter focuses on the architecture of an application produced by different open source project - for instance, Apache Hadoop, Drupal, NoSQL etc.  If you are interested in reviewing the beta, let me know and I can send you the information.
+
==== Upcoming Change of Bylaws ====
  
==== Bylaws and EDP Changes ====
+
* Wayne: Proposes getting rid of the "AC responsible for the development, articulation, and maintenance of the Eclipse Platform Architecture"
* EMO is proposing changes to the Bylaws and EDP that affect the Architecture Council
+
** Propose adding AC responsible for the EDP (with Wayne being responsible for creating the document)
** Remove the part (section 7.2) that makes the AC "responsible for the development, articulation, and maintenance of the Eclipse Platform Architecture" (it's been years since we've even attempted to do this, anyway)
+
** Martin: OK with adding EDP responsibility. Concerned about removing Arch responsibility.
** add responsibility for defining and maintaining the Eclipse Development Process.
+
*** Dave C: Expand the role from "Eclipse Platform" to applying to "Eclipse as a Whole"?
 +
** Wayne: AC doesn't have any teeth to impose architectural direction on any of the projects ... people come for advice ... it's poll, not push
 +
*** AC is becoming increasingly mis-named... we are Mentors, help projects with good advice, drive important technical cross-cutting efforts...
 +
** Martin: Bylaws shouldn't just reflect reality but describe the direction and expected state of the system.
 +
*** Do we acknowledge that in any truly Open system there is no Architecture anyways? Are we going to release Eclipse into chaos?
 +
** DougS: Each project controls their own domain
 +
** Wayne: AC has influence but no power
 +
** Council Charter should reflect reality, it's frustrating to have a statement that can never happen ... maybe rename into "Eclipse Advisory Council" ?
 +
** Pascal: Be honest to ourselves, nothing has ever happened in many years - Mentoring is the only realistic
 +
*** DougS: Had some false hope about good technical discussions, eg good discussion about e4
 +
** Wayne: Recent bug about security policy
 +
** Martin: Influence is directly related
 +
** Wayne: Want to bring a proposal for changing the responsibility to Mike
 +
*** Project Mentoring; Architectural Monitoring, Guidance and Influence
 +
** '''RESOLUTION: AI Wayne''' draft a statement along this lines and bring before Mike
 +
 
 +
==== OSS Architecture Book Beta ====
 +
 
 +
* Kim: I contributed a chapter on Eclipse to the upcoming  [http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/3847.html Architecture of Open Source applications] book.  The book is in the final stages of editing, and the editor, Greg Wilson, is looking for people to review the beta of the book, and provide feedback and quotes.  The book has 24 chapters and each chapter focuses on the architecture of an application produced by different open source project - for instance, Apache Hadoop, Drupal, NoSQL etc.  If you are interested in reviewing the beta, let me know and I can send you the information.
  
 
==== Maven @ Eclipse progress ====
 
==== Maven @ Eclipse progress ====
 +
* {{bug|283745}} Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with {{bug|288644}} naming)
 
* (new) {{bug|337068}} tasked with setting up maven.eclipse.org. Dave Carver, Alex Blewitt, and Aaron Digulla will be "given the keys"
 
* (new) {{bug|337068}} tasked with setting up maven.eclipse.org. Dave Carver, Alex Blewitt, and Aaron Digulla will be "given the keys"
 +
* zx updated the bug with some information, Dave C setting up an actual Nexus repo
 +
* zx doing some personal work - examples for how to setup a build, will bring before the AC
 +
* Vision having a sample build for projects @ Eclipse.org, allow projects to piggyback
 +
** Allow projects to tweak sample settings
 +
** Setup project's git repo and initial build when a project gets provisioned
 +
* Dave C allow people inherit from a parent POM
 +
* Pascal: Apache has parent POM's - want to simplify access to Findbugs etc
 +
* Martin: Apache Commons also creates websites through Maven
 +
* Pascal: Nexus Repo already installed?
 +
** Dave C, Wayne: Don't install anything commercial on our servers... Webmaster is on it (but busy due to recent DOS attach)
 +
* Wayne: Tycho pack200 problems still there, hoping for GSOC proposal to get the signing going
 +
** Dave C doesn't Jesse McConnel's Jetty stuff work?
  
* {{bug|283745}} Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with {{bug|288644}} naming)
+
==== Build Systems ====
  
* Wayne: '''Building with Tycho'''
+
* Henrik Lindberg ESE proceedings are now online [[WhatIsInABuildESE2010]]
** Wayne: been doing Tycho, got help from Jetty for '''pack200 + sign''' via Maven plugin (Chris does it manually; Pascal doesn't sign, want to use Jetty's plugin)
+
* (''old'') '''Antoine / Dave C''' {{bug|316642}} Requirements Wiki for build systems
** We should provide a Guide for the Eclipse.org community to help them set up their builds
+
** Nick linked the [https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmGcQy-AtllqdDV3eUtCTEM0TU5UakVFbFAyWUhyZnc&hl=en#gid=0 Google Doc spreadsheet]
** '''AI Pascal''' provide a pointer to what's available for pack200 + sign
+
* Will see more at EclipseCon
  
==== Updating to latest version of a lib ====
+
==== EclipseCon ====
  
* Andrew: '''Versions of non-eclipse.org dependencies'''
+
* Will have a Brakfast again
 +
* '''AI Martin''' create Twiki page for proposed agenda topics
  
 
==== General Topics ====
 
==== General Topics ====
  
* Introducing new members: Christian Campo (Appointed) and Steffen Pingel (Mylyn)
+
* '''Updating to Latest Version of Libs'''
** Steffen has been appointed as the representative of the new Mylyn top level project.
+
** '''AI zx''' Create Indigo report
** Christian Campo of compeople - lead of the Riena project; also committer on Windowbuilder, Examples project, SWT (for the Qt port)
+
  
* Pascal's {{bug|331385}} naming conventions for p2 Repos
+
* '''Source References'''
** No progress so far, continue discussion on the bug
+
** Martin: Now enabled in Orbit - requires libs to be re-tagged
 +
** For Orbit, goal is "get to the CM system" more than "get the code" since we don't build the code.
 +
** Even debugging may not be possible due to the way it's set up, still there is value in getting to the CM.
  
 
* '''News from the Board, EMO and Councils'''
 
* '''News from the Board, EMO and Councils'''
* Security Vulnerabilities
+
** Everyone heads down on EclipseCon, nothing much new
 +
** IP team still working very hard, everything we can do to relieve pressure is good
  
* '''Eclipsecon'''
+
* Pascal's {{bug|331385}} naming conventions for p2 Repos
 +
** No progress so far, continue discussion on the bug
  
=== e4 - current state of affairs ===
+
* Wayne's {{bug|337004}} and its dependencies - '''Security Vulnerabilities'''
 +
** Some input happened ... probably on the right track ... would want more input and influence from AC
 +
** Craft a bunch of tools / best practices that help projects
 +
** Main drivers are projects in the RT space
  
 +
* Welcome '''Steffen Pingel'''
 +
** Committer on MPC, p2, Mylyn (main focus)
  
 
=== Old Topics ===
 
=== Old Topics ===
  
 
* {{bug|324125}} architecture diagrams - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/councils/roadmap_v2_0/AC_v2_0/index.php 2006 version] - relationship to e4 ?
 
* {{bug|324125}} architecture diagrams - [http://www.eclipse.org/org/councils/roadmap_v2_0/AC_v2_0/index.php 2006 version] - relationship to e4 ?
* '''Build systems requirements''' - Antoine, Dave C
 
** Martin in touch with Nick and Henrik
 
 
* '''IP Logs''' - Martin and Wayne - [http://eclipse.org/woolsey/ project woolsey] exists and open for community, Wayne hopes get soemthing downloadable by Christmas
 
* '''IP Logs''' - Martin and Wayne - [http://eclipse.org/woolsey/ project woolsey] exists and open for community, Wayne hopes get soemthing downloadable by Christmas
 
** Allow projects to file bugs which list collections of libraries that are used for testing (and mark these collectively as exemt prereqs)
 
** Allow projects to file bugs which list collections of libraries that are used for testing (and mark these collectively as exemt prereqs)
Line 139: Line 171:
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns]], backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
+
* Cleaned up old action items, see [[Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011]] for old stuff
** While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
+
* (''old'') '''Michael''' to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
+
* (''old'') '''Tools and Tech PMC's''' to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
+
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
* (''old'') '''Mik''' to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
 
* (''old'') '''Dave C''' work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
 
** Martin - recently updated the [[Eclipse/Workspace/Committer_FAQ#Becoming_a_Committer]] with pretty strict criteria (committed contributions)
 
* (''old'') '''Dave C''' come up with a document how to save build resources
 
* (''old'') '''Dave C''' to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
 
* (''old'') '''Wayne''' to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
 
* (''old'') <strike>'''Wayne''' to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2</strike> Chris A did this.
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] page
 
* (''old'') '''Tom S''' Athena Common Builder Cookbook
 
 
* (''old'') '''Tim''' write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
 
* (''old'') '''Tim''' write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
 
* '''Martin''' revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
 
* '''Martin''' revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
 
* '''Martin''' {{bug|315210}} Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
 
* '''Martin''' {{bug|315210}} Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
* '''Antoine / Dave C''' {{bug|316642}} Requirements Wiki for build systems
 
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 10 2010]]
+
* EclipseCon Face-to-Face
 +
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/April 14 2011]]
  
 
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]
 
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]

Revision as of 13:47, 10 March 2011

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday March 10, 2011 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
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Dial-in: NEW Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid
NEW U.S. 1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid
NEW passcode 428029063

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Boris Bokowski
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Sven Efftinge
Mylyn: Steffen Pingel Mik Kersten
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
STP: Antoine Toulme Oisin Hurley
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Jonathan West
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
Neil Hauge
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Christian Campo, Dave Carver, Neil Hauge, Achim Loerke, Kim Moir, Martin O, Steffen Pingel, Pascal Rapicault, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Andrew Overholt, Tom Watson, Gary Xue
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict)
  • No-Show: John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Kenn Hussey, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht, Jonathan West, David Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf


Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

New Topics

Upcoming Change of Bylaws

  • Wayne: Proposes getting rid of the "AC responsible for the development, articulation, and maintenance of the Eclipse Platform Architecture"
    • Propose adding AC responsible for the EDP (with Wayne being responsible for creating the document)
    • Martin: OK with adding EDP responsibility. Concerned about removing Arch responsibility.
      • Dave C: Expand the role from "Eclipse Platform" to applying to "Eclipse as a Whole"?
    • Wayne: AC doesn't have any teeth to impose architectural direction on any of the projects ... people come for advice ... it's poll, not push
      • AC is becoming increasingly mis-named... we are Mentors, help projects with good advice, drive important technical cross-cutting efforts...
    • Martin: Bylaws shouldn't just reflect reality but describe the direction and expected state of the system.
      • Do we acknowledge that in any truly Open system there is no Architecture anyways? Are we going to release Eclipse into chaos?
    • DougS: Each project controls their own domain
    • Wayne: AC has influence but no power
    • Council Charter should reflect reality, it's frustrating to have a statement that can never happen ... maybe rename into "Eclipse Advisory Council" ?
    • Pascal: Be honest to ourselves, nothing has ever happened in many years - Mentoring is the only realistic
      • DougS: Had some false hope about good technical discussions, eg good discussion about e4
    • Wayne: Recent bug about security policy
    • Martin: Influence is directly related
    • Wayne: Want to bring a proposal for changing the responsibility to Mike
      • Project Mentoring; Architectural Monitoring, Guidance and Influence
    • RESOLUTION: AI Wayne draft a statement along this lines and bring before Mike

OSS Architecture Book Beta

  • Kim: I contributed a chapter on Eclipse to the upcoming Architecture of Open Source applications book. The book is in the final stages of editing, and the editor, Greg Wilson, is looking for people to review the beta of the book, and provide feedback and quotes. The book has 24 chapters and each chapter focuses on the architecture of an application produced by different open source project - for instance, Apache Hadoop, Drupal, NoSQL etc. If you are interested in reviewing the beta, let me know and I can send you the information.

Maven @ Eclipse progress

  • bug 283745 Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with bug 288644 naming)
  • (new) bug 337068 tasked with setting up maven.eclipse.org. Dave Carver, Alex Blewitt, and Aaron Digulla will be "given the keys"
  • zx updated the bug with some information, Dave C setting up an actual Nexus repo
  • zx doing some personal work - examples for how to setup a build, will bring before the AC
  • Vision having a sample build for projects @ Eclipse.org, allow projects to piggyback
    • Allow projects to tweak sample settings
    • Setup project's git repo and initial build when a project gets provisioned
  • Dave C allow people inherit from a parent POM
  • Pascal: Apache has parent POM's - want to simplify access to Findbugs etc
  • Martin: Apache Commons also creates websites through Maven
  • Pascal: Nexus Repo already installed?
    • Dave C, Wayne: Don't install anything commercial on our servers... Webmaster is on it (but busy due to recent DOS attach)
  • Wayne: Tycho pack200 problems still there, hoping for GSOC proposal to get the signing going
    • Dave C doesn't Jesse McConnel's Jetty stuff work?

Build Systems

EclipseCon

  • Will have a Brakfast again
  • AI Martin create Twiki page for proposed agenda topics

General Topics

  • Updating to Latest Version of Libs
    • AI zx Create Indigo report
  • Source References
    • Martin: Now enabled in Orbit - requires libs to be re-tagged
    • For Orbit, goal is "get to the CM system" more than "get the code" since we don't build the code.
    • Even debugging may not be possible due to the way it's set up, still there is value in getting to the CM.
  • News from the Board, EMO and Councils
    • Everyone heads down on EclipseCon, nothing much new
    • IP team still working very hard, everything we can do to relieve pressure is good
  • Pascal's bug 331385 naming conventions for p2 Repos
    • No progress so far, continue discussion on the bug
  • Wayne's bug 337004 and its dependencies - Security Vulnerabilities
    • Some input happened ... probably on the right track ... would want more input and influence from AC
    • Craft a bunch of tools / best practices that help projects
    • Main drivers are projects in the RT space
  • Welcome Steffen Pingel
    • Committer on MPC, p2, Mylyn (main focus)

Old Topics

  • bug 324125 architecture diagrams - 2006 version - relationship to e4 ?
  • IP Logs - Martin and Wayne - project woolsey exists and open for community, Wayne hopes get soemthing downloadable by Christmas
    • Allow projects to file bugs which list collections of libraries that are used for testing (and mark these collectively as exemt prereqs)
      • Couldn't distribute those libs or put them in scm, but could have them on the build server

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
  • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices

Action Items

  • Cleaned up old action items, see Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011 for old stuff
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated

Next Meeting