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|-
 
|-
 
| '''BIRT:'''  
 
| '''BIRT:'''  
| Wenfeng Li
+
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
| Wenbin He
+
| <strike>Wenbin He</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DTP:'''  
 
| '''DTP:'''  
 
| Brian Payton
 
| Brian Payton
| Linda Chan
+
| <strike>Linda Chan</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''  
 
| '''Eclipse:'''  
| Mike Wilson
+
| <strike>Mike Wilson</strike>
| John Arthorne
+
| <strike>John Arthorne</strike><br>Dani Megert
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''  
 
| '''Modeling:'''  
| Ed Merks
+
| <strike>Ed Merks</strike>
| Cédric Brun<br>Eike Stepper
+
| <strike>Cédric Brun</strike><br>Eike Stepper
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Mylyn:'''  
 
| '''Mylyn:'''  
| Steffen Pingel
+
| <strike>Steffen Pingel</strike>
| Mik Kersten
+
| <strike>Mik Kersten</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''  
 
| '''RT:'''  
| Christian Campo
+
| <strike>Christian Campo</strike>
| Tom Watson<br>Doug Clarke<br>Ian Bull
+
| <strike>Doug Clarke</strike><br><strike>Ian Bull</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''SOA:'''  
 
| '''SOA:'''  
| Adrian Mos
+
| <strike>Adrian Mos</strike>
| Marc Dutoo
+
| <strike>Marc Dutoo</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''  
 
| '''Technology:'''  
| Gunnar Wagenknecht
+
| <strike>Gunnar Wagenknecht</strike>
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
| Wayne Beaton
 
|-
 
|-
Line 95: Line 95:
  
 
* Feel free to fill in, but not during the meeting :)
 
* Feel free to fill in, but not during the meeting :)
 +
 +
<hr/>
  
 
==== Development Funding ====
 
==== Development Funding ====
 
* Wayne: '''Development Funding'''
 
* Wayne: '''Development Funding'''
 
** Funding stuff that's common and critical for the IDE - So far: p2, Marketplace, ...
 
** Funding stuff that's common and critical for the IDE - So far: p2, Marketplace, ...
** Looking for Priorities ... Javascript situation partially inspired the initiative, but not sure if that's P1
+
** Umbrella {{bug|471462}} looking for Priorities ... Javascript situation partially inspired the initiative, but not sure if that's P1
 
** Looking for Process to do this
 
** Looking for Process to do this
  
 
==== EDP Update ====
 
==== EDP Update ====
* Wayne: Blocker {{Bug|}} - please look at the bug and give feedback, are we targeting the right things ?
+
* Wayne: Blocker {{Bug|463857}} - please look at the bug and give feedback, are we targeting the right things ?
 
** Some runtime work seems unnecessarily hindered by the EDP; simplify project creation, release reviews, continuous integration
 
** Some runtime work seems unnecessarily hindered by the EDP; simplify project creation, release reviews, continuous integration
 
** Would like a complete rewrite - much effort but probably doable
 
** Would like a complete rewrite - much effort but probably doable
 
** Need a final form by mid October
 
** Need a final form by mid October
 
** Wayne would write the draft, but need direction first and input after the draft (and help writing sections would be appreciated)
 
** Wayne would write the draft, but need direction first and input after the draft (and help writing sections would be appreciated)
 +
** HOWTO docs are too big currently ... hopefully trimming the EDP will trim the HOWTO as well
 +
 +
* Max: Would like to encourage (or at least allow) '''faster release cadence''' - what's the minimum necessary that needs to be done for release ?
 +
 +
==== Hackathon Concept - Development Area ====
 +
* Wayne: {{bug|471463}} looking for a list of bugs that could be resolved in 2-3 hours
 +
** Want to get back to a habit of marking bugs '''bugday''' or similar
 +
** Focus people on what we need them to do ... turn more people into contributors
 +
** Perhaps there's many bugs that stay unadressed since we feel we'd need to get together in a room
 +
*** For example, have LaunchBar and Docker work totether
 +
*** AC to identify 4 "hard problems" that we'd plan addressing during EclipseCon as a "development experience"
 +
**** Encourage the right set of people to come to the conference and participate
 +
**** Benjamin, Michael, Wayne from the Foundation would oversee the area
 +
 +
* Eike: Suggest '''Oomph setups''' for projects to participate (such that contributors get up to speed faster)
 +
** Wayne - absolutely, code area could also be used for getting projects equipped with Oomph setups
 +
** Also IP team F2F ... SWTbot testing ... manual testing ("hammer on the package") and similar
 +
 +
* Max: Good to identify things to try and do ... but be open for anything, depends much on who can be there
 +
** Wayne: Have seen people who just "come and want to do something" thus having a list of desired items is good
 +
 +
* Dani: Still using '''bugday''' for Platform, currently have 200 of them
 +
** Wayne: Continue using bugday, but might want another keyword for ''f2fbug'' or ''hackathon'' or similar
 +
** Platform still does (virtual) bugdays on IRC, but not during release rampdown ... Wayne has some interest from Universities
 +
 +
* Eike: '''p2 performance improvements''' - working on some analysis to better understand what's going on
 +
 +
* Looking for a very '''simple process''' to nominate bugs (eg plain message to mailing list) - not much ceremony needed
 +
** '''AI All''' nominate issues
 +
 +
<hr/>
 +
 +
==== Feedback on Mars ====
 +
 +
* Denis: '''New and Noteworthy''' would be desired right in the IDE
 +
** Wayne has done the global N&N as an ASCII doc .. might work with Packaging Project on integrating that into the IDE
 +
** Eike: Revamp of Welcome might be a candidate for funding...
 +
** Martin: Downloaded Offline Welcome versus "online only" welcome ?
 +
*** Wayne: Might not have to decide upfront ... seen online welcome with JBoss Tools for example
 +
*** Might want to re-think how welcome is done (today just shown at certain times ... many other apps have Welcome in the Editor Area)
 +
 +
* Wayne - Anecdotal: To improve the perception of Eclipse, we seem to be on the right trajectory
 +
** Unfortunately, it's hard to trump the negative impact caused by the Google Announcement to drop ADK
 +
** Generally, '''User Experience still very important'''
 +
 +
==== Eclipse Usability ====
 +
 +
* Michael - '''Usability - Jetbrains Experience'''
 +
** Install experience very important: notification about updates, getting a plugin should just work
 +
** Eg suggest installing an editor based on file types in the Project Explorer
 +
*** Eike: Would be a great add-on for Oomph (probably add to the list of projects worth funding)
 +
** Oomph really good, streamlines the process ... but if some special stuff is needed (like Javascript) it's still hard
 +
** Wayne: In the past, the EMO had to remain absolutely neutral ... now with the Board focus on UX, we have slightly more power to recommend things
 +
 +
==== Editors and Javascript ====
 +
 +
* Example: Just look into a file
 +
** Observing Coworkers - 50% using Emacs or Sublime, 50% using an IDE
 +
** Download a file from Github and just look into the file ... hard with Eclipse !
 +
** Martin: In many cases, just Syntax Highlighting might be sufficient
 +
*** Consider [http://www.liclipse.com/ LiClipse] and [http://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/wfe-wordfile-editor Wordfile Editor] as "simple editor plugins" that exist today
 +
*** Eclipse default behavior of "open in System Editor" is extremely annoying in many cases
 +
** Consider Erich Gamma's [https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2015/3-680 talk on the Visual Studio Code Editor]
 +
*** Dotfiles can be used if they exist, but they are not compulsory
 +
** Or Tom's Editor ...
 +
 +
* Michael '''Javascript Support'''
 +
** Martin: Could the Orion solution (using Tern) maybe re-used ?
 +
** Dani: Re-using Orion in a Browser might be an option
 +
** Integrating Tern with JSDT would be interesting ... but resourcing (probably one option for EMO to sponsor)
 +
** Is anybody actually using web-based tools in real life?
 +
*** Web-based is good for small projects ... for large projects, fast search, refactoring ... an IDE is still a better choice
 +
*** Commandline plus local editor are still popular (will probably continue for the next 5 years)
 +
 +
=== General Topics ===
 +
 +
* Eike: Looking for Marcel to discuss a "bundles.info" file issue with mysterious NoSuchMethodError issues (Example: [https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=471652 Bug 471652])
 +
  
  
Line 128: Line 208:
 
== Next Meeting  ==
 
== Next Meeting  ==
  
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/August 13 2015]]
+
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/September 10 2015]]
  
 
[[Category:Architecture_Council_Meeting_Minutes]]
 
[[Category:Architecture_Council_Meeting_Minutes]]

Latest revision as of 09:27, 13 August 2015

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday July 9, 2015 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: Let's use the Foundation's Asterisk setup for this call:
  • North America (toll free) 1-866-569-4992
  • Germany (local call anywhere in Germany) 49-692-2224-6059
  • France (local call anywhere in France) 33-17-070-8535
  • Switzerland (local call anywhere in Switzerland) +41-44-580-2115
  • Spain, Sweden, others - see Asterisk/Numbers

Participant conference extension: 701 then enter pin: 51968

  • SIP clients can call 701@asterisk.eclipse.org, then enter pin 51968.

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Wenbin He
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Dani Megert
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Eike Stepper
Mylyn: Steffen Pingel Mik Kersten
RT: Christian Campo Doug Clarke
Ian Bull
SOA: Adrian Mos Marc Dutoo
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
WTP: Chuck Bridgham Neil Hauge

All Attendees

  • Max Andersen, Wayne Beaton, Alex Kurtakov, Dani Megert, Martin O, Brian Payton, Michael Scharf, Eike Stepper
  • Regrets: Marcel Bruch, Markus Knauer, Maximilian Kögel, Martin Lippert, Pascal Rapicault, Lars Vogel,


Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

New Topics

  • Feel free to fill in, but not during the meeting :)

Development Funding

  • Wayne: Development Funding
    • Funding stuff that's common and critical for the IDE - So far: p2, Marketplace, ...
    • Umbrella bug 471462 looking for Priorities ... Javascript situation partially inspired the initiative, but not sure if that's P1
    • Looking for Process to do this

EDP Update

  • Wayne: Blocker bug 463857 - please look at the bug and give feedback, are we targeting the right things ?
    • Some runtime work seems unnecessarily hindered by the EDP; simplify project creation, release reviews, continuous integration
    • Would like a complete rewrite - much effort but probably doable
    • Need a final form by mid October
    • Wayne would write the draft, but need direction first and input after the draft (and help writing sections would be appreciated)
    • HOWTO docs are too big currently ... hopefully trimming the EDP will trim the HOWTO as well
  • Max: Would like to encourage (or at least allow) faster release cadence - what's the minimum necessary that needs to be done for release ?

Hackathon Concept - Development Area

  • Wayne: bug 471463 looking for a list of bugs that could be resolved in 2-3 hours
    • Want to get back to a habit of marking bugs bugday or similar
    • Focus people on what we need them to do ... turn more people into contributors
    • Perhaps there's many bugs that stay unadressed since we feel we'd need to get together in a room
      • For example, have LaunchBar and Docker work totether
      • AC to identify 4 "hard problems" that we'd plan addressing during EclipseCon as a "development experience"
        • Encourage the right set of people to come to the conference and participate
        • Benjamin, Michael, Wayne from the Foundation would oversee the area
  • Eike: Suggest Oomph setups for projects to participate (such that contributors get up to speed faster)
    • Wayne - absolutely, code area could also be used for getting projects equipped with Oomph setups
    • Also IP team F2F ... SWTbot testing ... manual testing ("hammer on the package") and similar
  • Max: Good to identify things to try and do ... but be open for anything, depends much on who can be there
    • Wayne: Have seen people who just "come and want to do something" thus having a list of desired items is good
  • Dani: Still using bugday for Platform, currently have 200 of them
    • Wayne: Continue using bugday, but might want another keyword for f2fbug or hackathon or similar
    • Platform still does (virtual) bugdays on IRC, but not during release rampdown ... Wayne has some interest from Universities
  • Eike: p2 performance improvements - working on some analysis to better understand what's going on
  • Looking for a very simple process to nominate bugs (eg plain message to mailing list) - not much ceremony needed
    • AI All nominate issues

Feedback on Mars

  • Denis: New and Noteworthy would be desired right in the IDE
    • Wayne has done the global N&N as an ASCII doc .. might work with Packaging Project on integrating that into the IDE
    • Eike: Revamp of Welcome might be a candidate for funding...
    • Martin: Downloaded Offline Welcome versus "online only" welcome ?
      • Wayne: Might not have to decide upfront ... seen online welcome with JBoss Tools for example
      • Might want to re-think how welcome is done (today just shown at certain times ... many other apps have Welcome in the Editor Area)
  • Wayne - Anecdotal: To improve the perception of Eclipse, we seem to be on the right trajectory
    • Unfortunately, it's hard to trump the negative impact caused by the Google Announcement to drop ADK
    • Generally, User Experience still very important

Eclipse Usability

  • Michael - Usability - Jetbrains Experience
    • Install experience very important: notification about updates, getting a plugin should just work
    • Eg suggest installing an editor based on file types in the Project Explorer
      • Eike: Would be a great add-on for Oomph (probably add to the list of projects worth funding)
    • Oomph really good, streamlines the process ... but if some special stuff is needed (like Javascript) it's still hard
    • Wayne: In the past, the EMO had to remain absolutely neutral ... now with the Board focus on UX, we have slightly more power to recommend things

Editors and Javascript

  • Example: Just look into a file
    • Observing Coworkers - 50% using Emacs or Sublime, 50% using an IDE
    • Download a file from Github and just look into the file ... hard with Eclipse !
    • Martin: In many cases, just Syntax Highlighting might be sufficient
      • Consider LiClipse and Wordfile Editor as "simple editor plugins" that exist today
      • Eclipse default behavior of "open in System Editor" is extremely annoying in many cases
    • Consider Erich Gamma's talk on the Visual Studio Code Editor
      • Dotfiles can be used if they exist, but they are not compulsory
    • Or Tom's Editor ...
  • Michael Javascript Support
    • Martin: Could the Orion solution (using Tern) maybe re-used ?
    • Dani: Re-using Orion in a Browser might be an option
    • Integrating Tern with JSDT would be interesting ... but resourcing (probably one option for EMO to sponsor)
    • Is anybody actually using web-based tools in real life?
      • Web-based is good for small projects ... for large projects, fast search, refactoring ... an IDE is still a better choice
      • Commandline plus local editor are still popular (will probably continue for the next 5 years)

General Topics

  • Eike: Looking for Marcel to discuss a "bundles.info" file issue with mysterious NoSuchMethodError issues (Example: Bug 471652)



Next Meeting

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