Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/January 14 2010"

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{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
{|border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=1
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
| Wenfeng Li
+
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
| Gary Xue
+
| <strike>Gary Xue</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DTP:'''
 
| '''DTP:'''
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| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| <strike>Ed Merks</strike>
 
| <strike>Ed Merks</strike>
| Cédric Brun
+
| <strike>Cédric Brun</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
| Jeff McAffer
+
| <strike>Jeff McAffer</strike>
 
| <strike>Tom Watson</strike>
 
| <strike>Tom Watson</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
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|}
 
|}
  
* '''Regrets:''' Wayne Beaton, Dave Carver, Ed Merks (travelling), Tom Schindl (travelling), Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (travelling), Mik Kersten (conflict)
+
* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Brian Payton, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson, Darin Wright
 
+
* '''Regrets:''' Wayne Beaton, Dave Carver, Mik Kersten (conflict), Ed Merks (travelling), Tom Schindl (travelling), Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (travelling)
<!--
+
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Nick Boldt, Cedric Brun, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Michael Scharf, Dave Williams, Gary Xue
* '''Signed-up:''' John Arthorne, Cedric Brun, Eugene Chan, Tim deBoer, Bernd Kolb, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, Gary Xue
+
* '''Regrets:''' Boris Bokowski (Board Meeting Conflict), Oliver Cole (known conflict), Mike Wilson
+
* '''No-Show:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Nick Boldt, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Oisin Hurley, Markus Knauer, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Mary Ruddy, Dave Williams, Darin Wright
+
* Dormant: Sebastian Voigt, Oliver Wolf,
+
-->
+
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
Line 84: Line 79:
  
 
==== e4 - current state of affairs ====
 
==== e4 - current state of affairs ====
 
 
* McQ: e4 feels 1 milestone behind where it should be (original goal was self-hosting by Christmas)
 
* McQ: e4 feels 1 milestone behind where it should be (original goal was self-hosting by Christmas)
 
* McQ: Look and feel in e4 for the SDK: Susan Franklin created some Markups in {{bug|293481}} please add constructive criticism
 
* McQ: Look and feel in e4 for the SDK: Susan Franklin created some Markups in {{bug|293481}} please add constructive criticism
 +
** e.g. how much whitespace should be expected etc
 +
** note that an e4 goal is to support multiple looks / feels
 
* How could AC help / e4 be promoted / early adoption?
 
* How could AC help / e4 be promoted / early adoption?
 
+
** McQ wants selfhosting running by Eclipsecon, thats the right time to start thinking about early adoption
==== git at Eclipse - current state of affairs ====
+
** It would be good to find people who build stuff on "plain e4" rather than the compatibility layer... but currently that is more realistic for standalone rcp apps (RSSOwl?)
* is [[Git for Committers]] still up to date with {{bug|280583}} complete for the read-only git of all of Eclipse
+
** Shape of the model should be pretty stable by now, but rest is in flux... so migrating now would be more about helping e4 than helping apps
* could instructions be simplified for the most common use cases:
+
** Other candidate: anybody interested in building a web based UI component (hosted in Eclipse but also in a browser) like igoogle home pages... e.g. junit tests running on server show results in something like the junit view rather than plain xml
** Getting source for a plugin I want to change
+
* Doug S: Ribbon IDE? Toolbar still looks very ugly on Susan's markups
** Adding a branch for a patch of mine
+
** Legal says: In order to use the Ribbon lnf in an app, one has to sign an agreement with MS which says one is not competing with MS. Pushing that requirement on every consumer of the Platform makes this a non starter in the Platform
** Rebasing my branch to a new milestone
+
  
 
==== target platform docs ====
 
==== target platform docs ====
Line 104: Line 99:
 
** CDT: Documentation for the C runtime I develop against
 
** CDT: Documentation for the C runtime I develop against
 
** RT/Equinox: Documentation for the target I develop against
 
** RT/Equinox: Documentation for the target I develop against
* Any known solutions? What are people doing today?  
+
* Any known solutions? What are people doing today?
 
* What could be done from an architectural point of view?
 
* What could be done from an architectural point of view?
 +
** Darin W: UA might be smart enough in terms of its webserver to look for documentation in the target rather than the host
 +
** McQ: Chris G looking at a related IBM usecase... want to have a single large infocenter with docs for multiple products, but have a particular view into that
 +
** Andrew O: For C lib docs, linuxtools has a simple toggle to switch docs
  
=== Tracing ===
+
==== git at Eclipse - current state of affairs ====
* Usage of tracing API (Tim D to discuss)
+
* is [[Git for Committers]] still up to date with {{bug|280583}} complete for the read-only git of all of Eclipse
 +
* could instructions be simplified for the most common use cases:
 +
** Getting source for a plugin I want to change
 +
** Adding a branch for a patch of mine
 +
** Rebasing my branch to a new milestone
 +
* Andrew using the read-only git mirrors and following egit-dev
 +
** '''AI Andew O''' file a bug to track adding dummy docs
 +
** egit seems to be progressing well
 +
* Martin interested in a "git at eclipse for dummies" documentation ... what's the easiest way to get going
 +
* DougS using git for some C projects, unsure about import workflow
  
=== lnf in e4 ===
+
==== Tracing ====
 +
* TimD: Usage of tracing API (-debug optionsfile) has some drawbacks (restart eclipse, use commandline, how to create optionsfile)
 +
** Every component uses System.out differently
 +
** In e3.4 a new tracing service was added to solve all those issues (dynamically turn options on/off) but not quite finished
 +
** Some things going on in e3.6 to improve tracing API (too much output right now)
 +
** Q: Anybody else interested? Should we have a standard way of doing tracing?
 +
* BrianP: Sounds great!
 +
* As a first step, ask projects to use the Platform tracing API rather than rolling their own (in order to get consistent usage of timestamps etc, and support dynamic on/off of tracing options)
 +
** New stuff, see {{bug|267683}}
 +
 
 +
==== AC Backlog Discussions ====
 +
* {{bug|288721}} - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
 +
** Oisin tried it in the context of Maven, likes it
 +
** '''AI Oisin''' CC on the bug
 +
 
 +
* {{bug|267144}} - Re-use of micro components
 +
** Boris: Orbit works very well... but it looks like the problem is not urgent enough
 +
** Kosta proposed the [[Nexus Project]] some time ago ... status of this?
 +
** Suggest waiting for somebody to sign up for that work
 +
** '''AI Martin''' investigate status of Nexus project
 +
 
 +
* {{bug|261408}} - Simpler infrastructure for microprojects
 +
** Related to {{bug|235828}} better standard website template, have more web infrastructure auto-generated
 +
 
 +
* {{bug|261874}} - Provisional API conventions
 +
** Boris suggests talking about that at Eclipsecon over a beer
 +
** See also [https://www.eclipsecon.org/submissions/2010/view_talk.php?id=1427 EclipseCon Tutorial on API Design and Evolution] hosted by Boris and Martin (additional presenters welcome)
  
 
=== Items for next meeting ===
 
=== Items for next meeting ===
Line 122: Line 155:
 
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
 
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
 
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
 
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
* {{bug|288721}} - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
 
 
* {{bug|283745}} - Maven Repository at Eclipse
 
* {{bug|283745}} - Maven Repository at Eclipse
 
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
 
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices

Revision as of 08:12, 14 January 2010

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday January 14, 2010 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin
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Contents

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
DSDP: Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
STP: Oisin Hurley Antoine Toulme (unofficial)
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation) Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Eugene Chan Joanna Kubasta (unofficial)
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
  • Signed-up: John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Eugene Chan, Linda Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Brian Payton, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Mike Wilson, Darin Wright
  • Regrets: Wayne Beaton, Dave Carver, Mik Kersten (conflict), Ed Merks (travelling), Tom Schindl (travelling), Darin Swanson, Gunnar Wagenknecht (vacation), Tom Watson (travelling)
  • No-Show: Chris Aniszczyk, Nick Boldt, Cedric Brun, Adrian Colyer, Sven Efftinge, Neil Hauge, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Wenfeng Li, Jeff McAffer, Mike Milinkovich, Michael Scharf, Dave Williams, Gary Xue

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

  • Architecture Council/Meetings/December 10 2009
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
  • Ok green.gif Martin Ask PC to think about an "e4 ready" requirement for next year's train
  • Ok green.gif Martin Ask e4 team to pitch a migration talk at EclipseCon.
  • Still open items moved to #Action Items

New Topics

e4 - current state of affairs

  • McQ: e4 feels 1 milestone behind where it should be (original goal was self-hosting by Christmas)
  • McQ: Look and feel in e4 for the SDK: Susan Franklin created some Markups in bug 293481 please add constructive criticism
    • e.g. how much whitespace should be expected etc
    • note that an e4 goal is to support multiple looks / feels
  • How could AC help / e4 be promoted / early adoption?
    • McQ wants selfhosting running by Eclipsecon, thats the right time to start thinking about early adoption
    • It would be good to find people who build stuff on "plain e4" rather than the compatibility layer... but currently that is more realistic for standalone rcp apps (RSSOwl?)
    • Shape of the model should be pretty stable by now, but rest is in flux... so migrating now would be more about helping e4 than helping apps
    • Other candidate: anybody interested in building a web based UI component (hosted in Eclipse but also in a browser) like igoogle home pages... e.g. junit tests running on server show results in something like the junit view rather than plain xml
  • Doug S: Ribbon IDE? Toolbar still looks very ugly on Susan's markups
    • Legal says: In order to use the Ribbon lnf in an app, one has to sign an agreement with MS which says one is not competing with MS. Pushing that requirement on every consumer of the Platform makes this a non starter in the Platform

target platform docs

  • Today, all searchable documentation is for the development host (e.g. o.e.platform.doc.isv)
  • When I develop against multiple target platforms, how can I access correct documentation?
  • Sample use cases:
    • Use Eclipse 3.6m4 development host but work on the R3_5_maintenance brach as target platform
    • WTP: Documentation for the server-side target e.g. servlets
    • CDT: Documentation for the C runtime I develop against
    • RT/Equinox: Documentation for the target I develop against
  • Any known solutions? What are people doing today?
  • What could be done from an architectural point of view?
    • Darin W: UA might be smart enough in terms of its webserver to look for documentation in the target rather than the host
    • McQ: Chris G looking at a related IBM usecase... want to have a single large infocenter with docs for multiple products, but have a particular view into that
    • Andrew O: For C lib docs, linuxtools has a simple toggle to switch docs

git at Eclipse - current state of affairs

  • is Git for Committers still up to date with bug 280583 complete for the read-only git of all of Eclipse
  • could instructions be simplified for the most common use cases:
    • Getting source for a plugin I want to change
    • Adding a branch for a patch of mine
    • Rebasing my branch to a new milestone
  • Andrew using the read-only git mirrors and following egit-dev
    • AI Andew O file a bug to track adding dummy docs
    • egit seems to be progressing well
  • Martin interested in a "git at eclipse for dummies" documentation ... what's the easiest way to get going
  • DougS using git for some C projects, unsure about import workflow

Tracing

  • TimD: Usage of tracing API (-debug optionsfile) has some drawbacks (restart eclipse, use commandline, how to create optionsfile)
    • Every component uses System.out differently
    • In e3.4 a new tracing service was added to solve all those issues (dynamically turn options on/off) but not quite finished
    • Some things going on in e3.6 to improve tracing API (too much output right now)
    • Q: Anybody else interested? Should we have a standard way of doing tracing?
  • BrianP: Sounds great!
  • As a first step, ask projects to use the Platform tracing API rather than rolling their own (in order to get consistent usage of timestamps etc, and support dynamic on/off of tracing options)

AC Backlog Discussions

  • bug 288721 - Sonar / Eclemma - Cedric Brun, Dave Carver
    • Oisin tried it in the context of Maven, likes it
    • AI Oisin CC on the bug
  • bug 267144 - Re-use of micro components
    • Boris: Orbit works very well... but it looks like the problem is not urgent enough
    • Kosta proposed the Nexus Project some time ago ... status of this?
    • Suggest waiting for somebody to sign up for that work
    • AI Martin investigate status of Nexus project
  • bug 261408 - Simpler infrastructure for microprojects
    • Related to bug 235828 better standard website template, have more web infrastructure auto-generated

Items for next meeting

Regular briefing on the status of e4.

Old Topics

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
  • bug 283745 - Maven Repository at Eclipse
  • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
  • The art of project release naming - no bug yet ?!?

Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
  • Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
  • Wayne to ask EclipseCon PC/Donald if we can get a room for e4 Hack-a-thon (migration, creating plug-ins, etc.)
  • Wayne to discuss "e4 ready" marketing campaign with Ian.
  • 'Ed to tell Cloudsmith about bug 283745 Maven

Next Meeting