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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/February 10 2011"

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| Ed Merks
 
| Ed Merks
 
| Cédric Brun<br/>Sven Efftinge
 
| Cédric Brun<br/>Sven Efftinge
 +
|-
 +
| '''Mylyn:'''
 +
| Steffen Pingel
 +
| Mik Kersten
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
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=== Review of Last Meeting  ===
 
=== Review of Last Meeting  ===
  
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/January 13 2010]]  
+
*[[Architecture Council/Meetings/January 13 2011]]  
 
*(''old'') '''Antoine / Dave C''' {{bug|316642}} Requirements Wiki for build systems  
 
*(''old'') '''Antoine / Dave C''' {{bug|316642}} Requirements Wiki for build systems  
 
**Nick linked the [https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmGcQy-AtllqdDV3eUtCTEM0TU5UakVFbFAyWUhyZnc&hl=en#gid=0 Google Doc spreadsheet], Martin in touch with Henrik
 
**Nick linked the [https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmGcQy-AtllqdDV3eUtCTEM0TU5UakVFbFAyWUhyZnc&hl=en#gid=0 Google Doc spreadsheet], Martin in touch with Henrik
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=== New Topics ===
 
=== New Topics ===
  
* Pascal's {{bug|331385}} naming conventions for p2 Repos
+
==== Maven @ Eclipse progress ====
 
* {{bug|283745}} Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with {{bug|288644}} naming)
 
* {{bug|283745}} Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with {{bug|288644}} naming)
* Versions of non-eclipse.org dependencies
+
** zx still interested, but wants a 2nd
* Need two mentors for [http://eclipse.org/proposals/rt.ecr Eclipse Enterprise Content Repository Project (ECR)] Project. Volunteers?
+
** Any company? SAP?
 +
** What would the goal be? Converting the entire repo? Would need to go back to the projects...
 +
** Some of the Community's requirements is now possible with Tycho
 +
*** BUT Tycho serves people building OSGi apps... but Community want to just consume JAR's (eg Jface without OSGi)
 +
** Need to break out of the circle of AC asking projects
 +
** Perhaps need some pilot projects: Eclipselink, Jetty, ... jgit, ECF
 +
*** '''AI zx Ping Joan Smith''' about explaining technology ... who could be a pilot project to try out / receive the technology?
 +
*** ECF has been requested... but denied due to lack of resources so far
 +
*** zx: Ping those projects which have Maven builds already first, and ask how they're doing: *Eclipselink, Jetty*
 +
*** Pascal: ECF does not run without OSGi ... what's needed ? Martin: Ask interested consumers on the bugs
 +
** Wayne: Good approach .. rather than preaching, approach those which are already doing it
 +
 
 +
* Wayne: '''Building with Tycho'''
 +
** Wayne: been doing Tycho, got help from Jetty for '''pack200 + sign''' via Maven plugin (Chris does it manually; Pascal doesn't sign, want to use Jetty's plugin)
 +
** We should provide a Guide for the Eclipse.org community to help them set up their builds
 +
** '''AI Pascal''' provide a pointer to what's available for pack200 + sign
 +
 
 +
==== Updating to latest version of a lib ====
 +
 
 +
* Andrew: '''Versions of non-eclipse.org dependencies'''
 +
** Shipping lots of stuff like ASN, Commons etc
 +
** Not being up-to-date hurts when building Linux distros like Fedora that include Eclipse
 +
*** Fedora ends up patching stuff... or sometimes ends up having multiple versions of a lib in the repo
 +
*** Security patches
 +
** Would like a policy that asks projects to update to the latest available lib when shipping Indigo
 +
** Pascal been burned lately trying to update to latest (eg Lucene)
 +
** Martin: Moving up to the latest is work ... need to explain the value
 +
*** Chris: Thinks it's more a communication problem than convincing problem ... How can we make projects KNOW that a newer version is available?
 +
** Information part: Could Wayne's Woolsey tools help? Eg suggest newer version when an older ver ipzilla is detected with a project
 +
*** Would need data about upgrade path from ipzilla
 +
*** Today, there's just conventions on names in ipzilla
 +
*** Upgrade path is not always clear ... eg for UDC, upgrading httpclient would make API incompatible with older versions
 +
*** '''AI Wayne''' look into it for Woolsey
 +
*** '''AI Chris''' create a bug
 +
*** '''AI Wayne''' send E-Mail to cross-project
 +
** Making people aware is likely a good starting point
 +
 
 +
==== General Topics ====
 +
 
 +
* Introducing new members: Christian Campo (Appointed) and Steffen Pingel (Mylyn)
 +
** Steffen has been appointed as the representative of the new Mylyn top level project.
 +
** Christian Campo of compeople - lead of the Riena project; also committer on Windowbuilder, Examples project, SWT (for the Qt port)
 +
 
 +
* Pascal's {{bug|331385}} naming conventions for p2 Repos
 +
** No progress so far, continue discussion on the bug
 +
 
 +
* Wayne: Need two '''mentors''' for [http://eclipse.org/proposals/rt.ecr Eclipse Enterprise Content Repository Project (ECR)] Project. Volunteers?
 +
** Contact the proposer (through the proposals forum) if interested
 +
** '''AI Wayne''' ask project to open a bug
 +
 
 
* '''News from the Board, EMO and Councils'''
 
* '''News from the Board, EMO and Councils'''
 +
** Reminder - Release train: Feb 11 is the cut-off date for getting CQ's in
 +
** Bugzilla allows marking bugs as private - webmaster needs to turn on that feature (used for security vulnerabilities) - currently 36 bugs
 +
*** Please only use this feature when you actually need to
 +
** TODO: Want AC input into defining a '''Policy for dealing with security vulnerabilities'''
 +
*** Whom to inform, when and how
 +
*** Example: Even if an issue is being fixed, vulnerability may be in older versions of Eclipse ... don't want to expose this vulnerability
 +
*** Example: Bugzilla has a "circle of trust" asking relevant consumers to fix issues before exposing an issue to the wider community
 +
*** Eclipse is different in nature... Policy will likely involve creating recommended best practices for projects
 +
*** '''AI Wayne''' open a bug to discuss this
 +
 +
* '''Friends of Eclipse Money''' - One-time imbursements, eg for an Eclipse event for a meeting room etc
 +
** Money can't be spent in a way that creates a long-term engagement for the Foundation
 +
** Or, funding Webmaster to buy an additional harddrive
 +
** Intent is encourage people apply for money in ways that help the Eclipse community
 +
** Committer Reps and Wayne are responsible for deciding on funding
 +
** Boris: Want to make funding more direct and transparent, than putting money into the Eclipse.org budget
 +
** '''AI Wayne''' provide pointer to webpage
  
 
* '''Eclipsecon'''
 
* '''Eclipsecon'''
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* (''old'') '''Dave C''' to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
 
* (''old'') '''Dave C''' to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
 
* (''old'') '''Wayne''' to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
 
* (''old'') '''Wayne''' to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
* (''old'') '''Wayne''' to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
+
* (''old'') <strike>'''Wayne''' to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2</strike> Chris A did this.
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] page
 
* (''old'') '''Martin''' to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the [[Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices]] page
 
* (''old'') '''Tom S''' Athena Common Builder Cookbook
 
* (''old'') '''Tom S''' Athena Common Builder Cookbook
Line 131: Line 201:
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 10 2010]]
+
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/March 10 2011]]
  
 
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]
 
[[Category:Architecture Council Meeting Minutes]]

Latest revision as of 04:49, 10 March 2011

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday February 10, 2011 at 1600 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: NEW Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid
NEW U.S. 1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid
NEW passcode 428029063

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Boris Bokowski
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Sven Efftinge
Mylyn: Steffen Pingel Mik Kersten
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
STP: Antoine Toulme Oisin Hurley
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Jonathan West
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
Neil Hauge
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict)


Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

  1. PDE build must be able to fetch the code from the SCM so that it can build the bundles and generate source references in the manifests of these bundles. By default, PDE build fetches from CVS.  There are third party fetch factories for SVN and Git (See bug 289838 for the Git fetch factory which is available from this repo http://download.eclipse.org/egit/pde/updates-nightly. This git fetch factory is used to build Orion as Andrew describes here
  2. PDE must be able to parse the source references in the manifest and load the source into your workspace from the appropriate SCM.  This is the API work that Martin mentioned and is described in bug 326926

New Topics

Maven @ Eclipse progress

  • bug 283745 Maven @ Eclipse progress, workinggroup? (Along with bug 288644 naming)
    • zx still interested, but wants a 2nd
    • Any company? SAP?
    • What would the goal be? Converting the entire repo? Would need to go back to the projects...
    • Some of the Community's requirements is now possible with Tycho
      • BUT Tycho serves people building OSGi apps... but Community want to just consume JAR's (eg Jface without OSGi)
    • Need to break out of the circle of AC asking projects
    • Perhaps need some pilot projects: Eclipselink, Jetty, ... jgit, ECF
      • AI zx Ping Joan Smith about explaining technology ... who could be a pilot project to try out / receive the technology?
      • ECF has been requested... but denied due to lack of resources so far
      • zx: Ping those projects which have Maven builds already first, and ask how they're doing: *Eclipselink, Jetty*
      • Pascal: ECF does not run without OSGi ... what's needed ? Martin: Ask interested consumers on the bugs
    • Wayne: Good approach .. rather than preaching, approach those which are already doing it
  • Wayne: Building with Tycho
    • Wayne: been doing Tycho, got help from Jetty for pack200 + sign via Maven plugin (Chris does it manually; Pascal doesn't sign, want to use Jetty's plugin)
    • We should provide a Guide for the Eclipse.org community to help them set up their builds
    • AI Pascal provide a pointer to what's available for pack200 + sign

Updating to latest version of a lib

  • Andrew: Versions of non-eclipse.org dependencies
    • Shipping lots of stuff like ASN, Commons etc
    • Not being up-to-date hurts when building Linux distros like Fedora that include Eclipse
      • Fedora ends up patching stuff... or sometimes ends up having multiple versions of a lib in the repo
      • Security patches
    • Would like a policy that asks projects to update to the latest available lib when shipping Indigo
    • Pascal been burned lately trying to update to latest (eg Lucene)
    • Martin: Moving up to the latest is work ... need to explain the value
      • Chris: Thinks it's more a communication problem than convincing problem ... How can we make projects KNOW that a newer version is available?
    • Information part: Could Wayne's Woolsey tools help? Eg suggest newer version when an older ver ipzilla is detected with a project
      • Would need data about upgrade path from ipzilla
      • Today, there's just conventions on names in ipzilla
      • Upgrade path is not always clear ... eg for UDC, upgrading httpclient would make API incompatible with older versions
      • AI Wayne look into it for Woolsey
      • AI Chris create a bug
      • AI Wayne send E-Mail to cross-project
    • Making people aware is likely a good starting point

General Topics

  • Introducing new members: Christian Campo (Appointed) and Steffen Pingel (Mylyn)
    • Steffen has been appointed as the representative of the new Mylyn top level project.
    • Christian Campo of compeople - lead of the Riena project; also committer on Windowbuilder, Examples project, SWT (for the Qt port)
  • Pascal's bug 331385 naming conventions for p2 Repos
    • No progress so far, continue discussion on the bug
  • News from the Board, EMO and Councils
    • Reminder - Release train: Feb 11 is the cut-off date for getting CQ's in
    • Bugzilla allows marking bugs as private - webmaster needs to turn on that feature (used for security vulnerabilities) - currently 36 bugs
      • Please only use this feature when you actually need to
    • TODO: Want AC input into defining a Policy for dealing with security vulnerabilities
      • Whom to inform, when and how
      • Example: Even if an issue is being fixed, vulnerability may be in older versions of Eclipse ... don't want to expose this vulnerability
      • Example: Bugzilla has a "circle of trust" asking relevant consumers to fix issues before exposing an issue to the wider community
      • Eclipse is different in nature... Policy will likely involve creating recommended best practices for projects
      • AI Wayne open a bug to discuss this
  • Friends of Eclipse Money - One-time imbursements, eg for an Eclipse event for a meeting room etc
    • Money can't be spent in a way that creates a long-term engagement for the Foundation
    • Or, funding Webmaster to buy an additional harddrive
    • Intent is encourage people apply for money in ways that help the Eclipse community
    • Committer Reps and Wayne are responsible for deciding on funding
    • Boris: Want to make funding more direct and transparent, than putting money into the Eclipse.org budget
    • AI Wayne provide pointer to webpage
  • Eclipsecon

e4 - current state of affairs

Old Topics

  • bug 324125 architecture diagrams - 2006 version - relationship to e4 ?
  • Build systems requirements - Antoine, Dave C
    • Martin in touch with Nick and Henrik
  • IP Logs - Martin and Wayne - project woolsey exists and open for community, Wayne hopes get soemthing downloadable by Christmas
    • Allow projects to file bugs which list collections of libraries that are used for testing (and mark these collectively as exemt prereqs)
      • Couldn't distribute those libs or put them in scm, but could have them on the build server

We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:

  • DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
  • bug 285074 - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
  • bug 288393 - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices

Action Items

  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • (old) Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
  • (old) Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2 Chris A did this.
  • (old) Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
  • (old) Tom S Athena Common Builder Cookbook
  • (old) Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
  • Antoine / Dave C bug 316642 Requirements Wiki for build systems

Next Meeting