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Difference between revisions of "Architecture Council/Meetings/August 12 2010"

(Attendees)
Line 17: Line 17:
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| '''BIRT:'''
 
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
 
| <strike>Wenfeng Li</strike>
| Gary Xue
+
| <strike>Gary Xue</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''DTP:'''
 
| '''DTP:'''
Line 25: Line 25:
 
| '''DSDP:'''
 
| '''DSDP:'''
 
| Martin Oberhuber
 
| Martin Oberhuber
| TBD (DSDP-PMC)
+
|  
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
 
| '''Eclipse:'''
| Mike Wilson
+
| <strike>Mike Wilson</strike>
| John Arthorne<br/>Boris Bokowski
+
| <strike>John Arthorne</strike><br/><strike>Boris Bokowski</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| '''Modeling:'''
 
| Ed Merks
 
| Ed Merks
| Cédric Brun<br/>Sven Efftinge
+
| <strike>Cédric Brun</strike><br/><strike>Sven Efftinge</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| '''RT:'''
 
| Jeff McAffer
 
| Jeff McAffer
| Tom Watson
+
| <strike>Tom Watson</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''STP:'''
 
| '''STP:'''
| Antoine Toulme
+
| <strike>Antoine Toulme</strike>
| Oisin Hurley
+
| <strike>Oisin Hurley</strike>
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''Technology:'''
 
| '''Technology:'''
Line 56: Line 56:
 
|-
 
|-
 
| '''WTP:'''
 
| '''WTP:'''
| Tim deBoer
+
| <strike>Tim deBoer</strike>
| Dave Carver<br/>Neil Hauge
+
| <strike>Dave Carver</strike><br/>Neil Hauge
 
|}
 
|}
 +
 +
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Linda Chan, Neil Hauge, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Jonathan West,
  
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht (conflicting appointment), Mik Kersten (at Agile conference), Darin Wright (conflict)
 
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht (conflicting appointment), Mik Kersten (at Agile conference), Darin Wright (conflict)
  
<!--
+
* '''No-Show:''' John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Kenn Hussey, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Mike Milinkovich, Kim Moir, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, Dave Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue
* '''Signed-up:''' Chris Aniszczyk, John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Linda Chan, Neil Hauge, Kenn Hussey, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Kim Moir, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Jonathan West, Dave Williams, Gary Xue
+
* '''Regrets:''' Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht (conflicting appointment), Mike Wilson (conflict)
+
* '''No-Show:''' Wayne Beaton, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Mik Kersten, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Mike Milinkovich, Brian Payton, Mary Ruddy, Doug Schaefer, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, Oliver Wolf, Darin Wright
+
-->
+
  
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
 
== Agenda / Notes ==
Line 73: Line 71:
 
=== Review of Last Meeting ===
 
=== Review of Last Meeting ===
 
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/July 8 2010]]
 
* [[Architecture Council/Meetings/July 8 2010]]
* (''old'') '''Tim''' write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''zx''' Helios API Tooling Report
* '''Martin''' revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
+
** Report exists at - still lots of internal API being used
* '''Martin''' {{bug|315210}} Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
+
* [[Image:Ok_green.gif]] '''AI Boris, Ed''' ask Mike to more frequently publish board minutes
* '''Antoine / Dave C''' Requirements Wiki for build systems
+
** Mike replies - it's a big tedious effort which only Mike can do, complains about backlog
* '''zx''' Helios API Tooling Report
+
** Will try again at a face-to-face meeting
* '''AI Boris, Ed''' ask Mike to more frequently publish board minutes
+
 
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]]
 
* Still open items moved to [[#Action Items]]
  
=== e4 - current state of affairs ===
+
=== SWT and QT ===
  
* PC / Release Train Relationship to Eclipse 4.0
+
* Doug S: {{bug|318484}} SWT using LGPL Javalib for talking to QT
 +
** Wayne: non-exempt pre-req / works-with: we cannot ship QT but we can use it
 +
** GTK is similar .. pre-dates current wording of the IP policy
 +
** Cannot expect QT to be installed on average user's workstation
 +
** This is an Executive Director's thing... Mike M to look at when back from vacation
 +
** Doug S thinks there's only one option (Nokia licensing it)
 +
** Wayne thinks the QT / Janbee dual-license could be used.
 +
 
 +
=== IP Policy ===
 +
 
 +
* Wayne: Appeal to Mentors evangelize the Eclipse IP Policy with their projects
 +
** IP Policy is one of the key benefits of Eclipse
 +
** One goal is avoid situation where end users "have to get lib X from Y or otherwise nothing works"
 +
** Jeff thinks that some of the Policy is too hard ... on Equinox PMC, there's some CQ's where they just don't know what to do
 +
** Wayne wants Mentors to help ... and Janet to help out where Mentors are overwhelmed (schedule something with the RT PMC)
 +
 
 +
* There's a couple of simple things:
 +
** iplog+ the attachment, not the bug
 +
** Code is copyrightable, ideas are not
 +
*** There's corner cases, e.g. is the Manifest of a lib copyrightable? Bundling does seem like an act of creativity .. but IP team in the end concluded it's not IP
 +
 
 +
=== e4 - current state of affairs ===
  
=== New Topics ===
+
* Eclipse 4.0 has shipped - not seen much buzz or feedback yet, neither positive nor negative
 +
* Maybe a good sign that it's taken as what it is - an Early Adopter's Release, but not for end users
  
* Build systems requirements - Antoine, Dave C
+
=== Feature Inclusions / Ranges ===
* '''News from the Board, EMO and Councils'''
+
  
=== Items for next meeting ===
+
* Jeff: Feature inclusions vs. requires (came up at end of Helios):
 +
** Buckminster allows converting "feature inclusions" to "ranges" - this has a lot of wide and nontrivial implications
 +
** Referred people to the AC - see June Minutes
 +
** Jeff tends to have Projects drive this (ie file questions / bugs against the AC) - preferredly not at the end of Indigo
  
Regular briefing on the status of e4.
+
=== News from the EMO ===
  
=== Old Topics ===
+
* Wayne: BPEL leadership has been replaced
 +
* Wayne: Tycho approved - yet another build technology
  
We need to reduce our bug backlog, by actually coming to a common resolution on some. Here are the most recent ones:
+
=== Portal Replacement ===
  
* DaveC would like to discuss New Committer Guidelines; Scrum / Agile techniques
+
* Eclipse desires to replace the Portal ... looking at Drupal, like to hear alternative suggestions
* {{bug|285074}} - Dave Carver - Hudsonbuilder and write access to the cvs / svn repo
+
** Jeff: Consider running as RAP app?
* {{bug|283745}} - Maven Repository at Eclipse
+
** Wayne thinks it's a content management app and not just frontend to databases
* {{bug|288393}} - Denis - Bugzilla Best Practices
+
* The art of project release naming - no bug yet ?!?
+
  
* '''[[Architecture Council/Open Issues|AC Bugzilla]]''' backlog
 
* See also [[Architecture Council/Open Issues]] for overflow items that were not discussed
 
* News from the EMO and Councils ?
 
  
 
== Action Items ==
 
== Action Items ==
Line 128: Line 145:
 
* '''Martin''' {{bug|315210}} Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
 
* '''Martin''' {{bug|315210}} Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
 
* '''Antoine / Dave C''' Requirements Wiki for build systems
 
* '''Antoine / Dave C''' Requirements Wiki for build systems
* '''zx''' create an API Report for all of Helios and inform the AC
 
* '''Ed/Boris''' to get Mike publish board meeting minutes more frequently
 
  
 
== Next Meeting ==
 
== Next Meeting ==

Revision as of 11:57, 12 August 2010

Meeting Title: Architecture Council Monthly Meeting
Date & Time: Thursday August 12, 2010 at 1500 UTC / 0800 SFO / 1100 Ottawa / 1600 London / 1700 Berlin attention DST change
Html.gifHTML | Ical.gifiCal
Dial-in: NEW Canada 1-877-727-8553 toll free / 1-416-840-9801 caller paid
NEW U.S. 1-866-394-4146 toll free / 1-480-629-1624 caller paid
NEW passcode 428029063

Attendees

All AC Members are invited.

  • PMC Reps please confirm attendance or list your delegate below. Every PMC is required to name a primary and backup delegate, and to ensure that one delegate attends the meeting.
BIRT: Wenfeng Li Gary Xue
DTP: Brian Payton Linda Chan
DSDP: Martin Oberhuber
Eclipse: Mike Wilson John Arthorne
Boris Bokowski
Modeling: Ed Merks Cédric Brun
Sven Efftinge
RT: Jeff McAffer Tom Watson
STP: Antoine Toulme Oisin Hurley
Technology: Gunnar Wagenknecht Wayne Beaton
Tools: Doug Schaefer
TPTP: Jonathan West
WTP: Tim deBoer Dave Carver
Neil Hauge
  • Signed-up: Chris Aniszczyk, Wayne Beaton, Linda Chan, Neil Hauge, Jeff McAffer, Ed Merks, Andrew Overholt, Martin O, Brian Payton, Doug Schaefer, Jonathan West,
  • Regrets: Oliver Cole (standing conflict), Wenfeng Li (standing conflict), Antoine Toulme, Gunnar Wagenknecht (conflicting appointment), Mik Kersten (at Agile conference), Darin Wright (conflict)
  • No-Show: John Arthorne, Boris Bokowski, Nick Boldt, Cédric Brun, Dave Carver, Eugene Chan, Doug Clarke, Tim deBoer, Oisin Hurley, Kenn Hussey, Markus Knauer, Bernd Kolb, Mike Milinkovich, Kim Moir, Mary Ruddy, Michael Scharf, Tom Schindl, Darin Swanson, Tom Watson, Dave Williams, Mike Wilson, Oliver Wolf, Gary Xue

Agenda / Notes

  • Feel free to edit, but not during the call!

Review of Last Meeting

  • Architecture Council/Meetings/July 8 2010
  • Ok green.gif zx Helios API Tooling Report
    • Report exists at - still lots of internal API being used
  • Ok green.gif AI Boris, Ed ask Mike to more frequently publish board minutes
    • Mike replies - it's a big tedious effort which only Mike can do, complains about backlog
    • Will try again at a face-to-face meeting
  • Still open items moved to #Action Items

SWT and QT

  • Doug S: bug 318484 SWT using LGPL Javalib for talking to QT
    • Wayne: non-exempt pre-req / works-with: we cannot ship QT but we can use it
    • GTK is similar .. pre-dates current wording of the IP policy
    • Cannot expect QT to be installed on average user's workstation
    • This is an Executive Director's thing... Mike M to look at when back from vacation
    • Doug S thinks there's only one option (Nokia licensing it)
    • Wayne thinks the QT / Janbee dual-license could be used.

IP Policy

  • Wayne: Appeal to Mentors evangelize the Eclipse IP Policy with their projects
    • IP Policy is one of the key benefits of Eclipse
    • One goal is avoid situation where end users "have to get lib X from Y or otherwise nothing works"
    • Jeff thinks that some of the Policy is too hard ... on Equinox PMC, there's some CQ's where they just don't know what to do
    • Wayne wants Mentors to help ... and Janet to help out where Mentors are overwhelmed (schedule something with the RT PMC)
  • There's a couple of simple things:
    • iplog+ the attachment, not the bug
    • Code is copyrightable, ideas are not
      • There's corner cases, e.g. is the Manifest of a lib copyrightable? Bundling does seem like an act of creativity .. but IP team in the end concluded it's not IP

e4 - current state of affairs

  • Eclipse 4.0 has shipped - not seen much buzz or feedback yet, neither positive nor negative
  • Maybe a good sign that it's taken as what it is - an Early Adopter's Release, but not for end users

Feature Inclusions / Ranges

  • Jeff: Feature inclusions vs. requires (came up at end of Helios):
    • Buckminster allows converting "feature inclusions" to "ranges" - this has a lot of wide and nontrivial implications
    • Referred people to the AC - see June Minutes
    • Jeff tends to have Projects drive this (ie file questions / bugs against the AC) - preferredly not at the end of Indigo

News from the EMO

  • Wayne: BPEL leadership has been replaced
  • Wayne: Tycho approved - yet another build technology

Portal Replacement

  • Eclipse desires to replace the Portal ... looking at Drupal, like to hear alternative suggestions
    • Jeff: Consider running as RAP app?
    • Wayne thinks it's a content management app and not just frontend to databases


Action Items

  • (old) Martin to follow up on Architecture Diagrams idea
  • (old) Michael to flesh out the Patterns idea and remind the EAC -- started Architecture Council/Top Ten Recommendations#Design Patterns, backed by EclipseCon tutorial proposals
    • While these show how well-known GoF patterns are applied in Eclipse, Michael's idea was more to find and describe new patterns which are specific to Eclipse
  • (old) Michael to draft an E-Mail about the "plugin granularity" idea, searching for people to lead the effort
  • (old) Tools and Tech PMC's to encourage incubating grandfathered projects find a mentor; mentorless projects due to AC members quitting or falling dormant
  • (old) Martin to add Eclipsecon meeting notes onto the wiki
  • (old) Mik to create initial "architectural walkthrough" material for Mylyn -- 1 wiki page not too large, send link to the mailing list
  • (old) Dave C work with Wayne on a "handbook" for project criteria for becoming a committer (referencing committer guidelines)
  • (old) Dave C come up with a document how to save build resources
  • (old) Dave C to try bugzilla UNCONFIRMED state
  • (old) Wayne to ask Sonatype about Nexus test installation
  • (old) Wayne to try doing a 3.6m2 API Report on Helios m2
  • (old) Martin to file bug for asking Mik hyperlink Wikitext / crowdsourcing Docs handbook on the Architecture Council/Top Ten Project Development Practices page
  • (old) Tom S Athena Common Builder Cookbook
  • Tim write up an initial wiki page with information for people to standardize on the tracing API
  • Martin revise the AC Wiki to make it easier to find the New Member Process. More links on homepage. More usage of categories.
  • Martin bug 315210 Make the AC mailing list open / moderated
  • Antoine / Dave C Requirements Wiki for build systems

Next Meeting